Transcript — Eagle Mountain City Council, 15 November 2024

Okay, let's go ahead and get started. So I have 15 minutes after the meeting, November 2, 2024, Eagle Mountain City Council, strategic conference, and we will turn the time over to Representative Grecious. I didn't know I had an intro. Yes.

Well, I'm sorry. It was a weak intro. What do you need to do? It was a weak intro.

No, no, no. Oh, Lord. Everybody here knows me. I want you to solve all of our problems.

Well, I know that. And today would be good. I'm trying to. Okay, so I know there's a couple things that I'm working on that will impact the city and then I really want to do Q&A more than anything because otherwise I won't think of it.

The biggest one is related to data with how we analyze our population data here in the state. We have census data for those projections right now, which is very top down. So I have a piece of legislation. I have to work in the population committee with Kim Gardner and a bunch of different stakeholders on building a bottom-up solution.

So rather than them telling us what we have, it'll start with us telling them here are these different metrics of data that we have and building it kind of from the bottom up. There are some things that are federally regulated that we won't be able to impact with that. But like state transportation funding distribution and those sorts of things would all be built into that. And so it's a way we can try to capture some of that exponential growth because their population for us from last year's around 18,000 love from what we think it is.

So just trying to figure that out. So that's the biggest thing. We're also helping districting for elections. Redistricting is actually set in the state constitution.

Which is state level. Well, yes, but it would have to go on as a ballot amendment in two years. So unsure of our legal counsel is trying to figure out if it can be used because of how it's written. It's kind of a gray area.

So maybe and maybe not. How often do they read about it? Is it census every time? Every 10 years off of census.

Well, see, I think that's why I asked them. Because really, why else do we care about population? Are school board seats or district seats for representation? Road.

It's road. They base it on population. I get it. I'm going there.

But aside from roads, our representation, which is what caused the school district split, for the most part, is the fact where came the representation in areas that needed. Right. So if we're going to work on data that has to do with population, that has to do with other things in life, why would it not be used? So I would encourage at least the exploration of?

It's an exploration, but we can only vote on the constitution every two years. And that was this year. And so we wouldn't be able to vote on it for a minute or two days. Well, look at that base.

I think that's something to look at in two years. Yeah, correct. It just might not be a this year situation. They're trying to figure that out.

But then there's also the redistricting, the way that it's worded. We may still be able to apply it to more local things, just not state level things. We're trying to figure out all the new ones to us. By the way, I didn't intend to tell you about Kimsky Gardner.

They did reach out. Yeah. I followed. I had our staff follow up with them and the gal that was supposed to be doing it was out of town.

So she committed yesterday. She contacted us yesterday. We're setting up a time for next week. Perfect.

Okay. Open up for Q&A. Still hasn't arrived. What issues interest you guys right now?

Power. Who in the state, on the state legislature, do we need to be lobbying to help us with our power? So Jeff was actually super in the weeds on power. Okay.

And then speaker, obviously, is very involved. So power is a focus. It's going to be a legislative priority this upcoming session. It was last session, but even more so this session.

The problem, what are you typing out? This is, sorry. I'm wondering why you're sitting back there when you could be right there by Evan. Because I think that you could weigh in.

If that's okay, Mayor. Yep. Or by Melissa. I said, oh, no.

Because I think this conversation could be very well lead into what could he do for us. Correct? Okay. How are we?

Come. Okay. How are we? Okay.

I'm going to pause. And feel free. After further review. Mr.

Stern, feel free to jump in because I think we need to know who to talk to, but you're the one that we need to talk to. Okay. Well, and so I do know that on this Rocky Mountain issue that we've been having with our data centers, the governor, the president, and the speaker all met with Rocky Tower just a month ago. The problem is there isn't a way for them to get those transmission lines in that they need without significantly increasing consumer rates.

Because we need the equivalency of about the state of Wyoming as far as power consumption total. Just here. Then why don't we just, why don't we just build our own power plant? Yes.

Well, I think you should. But I think the state's in the way of us doing that. And so can we get the state out of the way? The state would happily get out of the way.

So we are, our big focus is increasing power generation and bulking up the grid. I just don't know how. Is there regulatory things that are in the way? There's a lot of federal regulatory issues.

The way it's right now though, if we build a park plant, we'd have to feed our power into the Rocky Mountain power grid. And so just. That's what we want to get. So behind the engineer would be a better thing.

But we don't want to have to get that more power. What do you know? No, I mean what the representative is saying. So Scott Sandel, I know, has kind of a comprehensive power build.

He's working with Cole and Jack on it. Yeah. From the House side. Sandel's obviously the senator.

I think that's where it's going to start. But yeah, working with, there's a whole committee that's going around looking, you know, nuclear, geothermal, and all kinds of different power. And yeah, you're right. One of the issues is there's regulatory problems with behind the meter and front of the meter, with being in Rocky Mountain powers area, the public service commission, and kind of the whole regulatory framework.

And so that is understanding one of the things contemplating this bill is triggers and things to basically, you know, Rocky, either you step up and do a bunch of these things, or the option will be for communities and others to go out and, you know. What communities that are generating, you know, power, are they also giving that extra power to Rocky Mountain? No, they're separate. They're, you know, UMPS.

And so they're not under the same, I mean, they, they're way back. I mean, you're talking about the Murray's and all those. Those were kind of before the regulatory, if you will, scheme. Their grandfather, basically.

And so they, you know, they have their own city that they generate. Now they're still the same kind of streaming. What's interesting is several of them have the capacity to build additional power, and could put it into the overall system. But they're basically disincentivized in the current framework to do that.

And so it's kind of looking at that holistically. Basically, uh, probably the future for the amount of power that 70 talked about we need. I mean, nuclear is really about the only option, honestly. That's what we talked about.

But, you know, realistically on a fast track, that's 10 years old. And we're at a problem now. Yeah. So it's working through everything from keeping some of the coal-fired plants on longer, um, to...

Can they increase capacity? What's that? Can they increase capacity? Well, the biggest problem you have with that are federal things with air sheds and kind of what they call the statewide STIP.

And so what, and it's a feat, and it's not one of those things where you kind of move it around, like, okay, we're going to do better here. And so therefore we can now do this down in Delta and other places. And, you know, it's a statewide thing that you can't because of air or clothes. So it's all regulated by the state, though.

No, that's federal. That's federal. So one of the big powers is IPT. That's the one in Delta.

That's the one in Delta has coal-fired plant down there. They are building and about to finish the next gas plants. They're 50-50. They're gas too, right?

Not yet. They're working towards that, though. They're working towards basically shutting off the coal and turning on, if you will, the gas fire. The problem is, you know, logically, you think, well, why can't we figure out a way to do both?

Well, basically, to get that approved, as well as what everything that Rio Tinto does and the other coal-fired plants that are in the Rockies, and all these other things, the agreement statewide was to shut these down. And so now to try to turn those back on isn't very simple. And so that's honestly something the state legislature has been working with for the last three years of kind of trying to figure out how to, if there is a way to do this. So the reason I bring that up is just the state gets, you know, and frankly, a lot of it's being driven by Eagle Mountain, and now the Inland Port, which is trying to get some data centers and other large consumptions of power.

It used to be obviously data centers burn used tons and tons of water. We don't have enough water. So now the next thing they're using a lot of is obviously power. And so now we're finding we don't have enough of that.

So in the meantime, it's how do we streamline for nuclear? But how do we, over the next 10 years, kind of band-aid and patch and hold it all together so that, so that we can get to sit around and wait. So that's what this bill, and there'll be other bills, but this is kind of a comprehensive one to go through and try to free up some of the regulatory. And they put the screws to rock about power, you know, the frustrations being there's not been the capital investment in Utah.

It should have been that they're, and we're, they're letting the policies and the philosophy of Washington and Oregon, which obviously feels awfully slightly different. Utah. Yeah. Between renewables and everything else is driving that.

So discussions of breaking out. Wyoming, Utah is another. Wyoming, Utah basically being its own separate from them as far as sharing capital resources, infrastructure development. Because Utah is the bulk of their customer base, but we're not with our headquarters.

You guys are aware of what, what our concerns are, right? The data centers are driving a lot of this conversation anyway. We have two that have already put the brakes on. And the consumption that they need.

We have one that needs 1.4 megawatts. We have one that needs 800 megawatts. And the other one needs, what's QTSs? I mean, that's the thing is they, they need a certain amount now, but they could scale.

They could scale. So what is it now? About, like 700? They could probably deal with just 400 to 500.

So we're, we're almost half of the total consumption of Utah for three data centers. Yeah. And to wait even five to seven years could divert them to go to other states. So I think that's the thing that we're concerned about.

How do we fast track some of these things that we can have, like you said, band-aids. And this is the step we're going to need help with. We need to be having these conversations with the decision makers at the state. And saying how, how can we help?

What participation can we as a community? Because it affects not just Eagle Mountain, but also the county, the school district, and the state. There's tax money that flows to all of those entities. It's also a conversation that needs to be had with our federal delegation.

Yeah. I know. Our Senate leadership and the governor's office are all doing that. But any additional pressure we can apply from our end.

We reached out to Congressman Curtis' office to make their schedule. So they're scheduled. They committed to me, pre-election, that they would come out here and have a conversation with us. Yeah.

So if you go into a roadblock, I will talk to Cory Norman about making that happen. That was a commitment they made. That would be great. Because he's the most familiar out of them in terms of, at least in terms of nuclear.

Right. That's his thing. Are there federal dollars that we can tap into for some of the states to fast track? I mean, we're talking about energy production?

I'm not as well-versed. I'm sure there are. Honestly, that's one of the things, candidly, that's been somewhat frustrating at the state level, is the Office of Energy at the state level has not been very strong candidly. They recently just hired a new director or whatever they call that person.

King's director. And they're kind of basically revamping that office and how it works and how it goes after grants and things like that. And so, again, we, like most people, I guess, go from crisis to crisis. And so water for a couple of years there was the crisis.

And there's, we've been pulling down quite a bit of federal money and other things for that. And then now, powers that, you know, kind of risen to the top. Of course, salt water, so now we want to power. But, you know, candidly, what will be interesting is this new administration at a federal level, I would assume it's going to be much more pro-nuclear, pro-coal, pro-fossil, pro-wet.

You know, kind of all those, basically using every tool in the toolbox versus limiting us to just renewables and things like that, that, you know, certainly have their purpose, but can't be dependent on for a base level load, which is what we need. Because data centers, as you well know, you can't, they can't go down, you know, you can't, you know, cycle them through. And so they have that base level power. Well, I know that's, that's contemplated and that's weird.

Right. Yeah. That's, that's really what we need today, too. I mean, who knows what, how computing is going.

If you start moving into quantum computing, we're talking about an entirely different power source, which is, that's the next thing. AI is what's, what's here now quantum computing will be the next thing. Well, and that's honestly, if you listen to the president, the speaker, especially, you know, their, their whole focus is this is really the next arms race, if you will, of who can have the computing power for AI and China building, you know, new plants, new facilities, new power generation literally every day. And we're behind.

And so that's where I know at least there, the goal of the president speaker is for Utah to become one of the leaders and making it as easy and as fast track as possible to kind of get ahead of that and be a leader in that. And so, you know, they're, they're meeting with anybody and everybody all through the whole rate, especially a nuclear chain of the industry. And so they've got to be in a lot of interest in companies moving here and putting their kind of headquarters here as well as the different facilities because that's, you know, everybody else is kind of playing catch up to where Utah's seen in advance. So the point was, you know, which you would have never thought 10 years ago, you're having these nuclear facilities like Three Mile Island and stuff being bought up by data centers by AWS and others purely to then extend their life and power what they need the power for their facilities.

California is the same thing, which would have been heresy a decade ago. Yeah. And now it's the lifeline that everybody's rallying around us. This is how we're going to go into the next, you know, 20 years.

One of the questions I have is how do we, how do we position ourselves to Eagle Mountain to be more competitive than some of our competitors that we're going to be fighting in this mountain generation? I mean, what are some of the areas in the city or in the state that are, that are also buying or that are in, in the same or similar situation? I don't know of any others that are in the same situation. So that's one of the questions is, is Eagle Mountain driving this conversation in the state?

Yes. I would say Eagle Mountain and then the inland porch would be, there's been certainly some different types of power, power uses there that they'd want to facilitate. But no, by and large, it's Eagle Mountain is the 800 pound gorilla for needing power. So then not just generations transmission, that's our other problem is, you know, it's not just, you know, pushing more power.

It's having the ability to actually get the power over here. Which is part of why we can't do that right now. Yeah. So, good on to that, lead on to that too.

What can we do and what can we have you do? And what, what can you do for us and what can we do to support us? What's the next step? I mean, you might know better, but I mean, we're doing everything at the state level to deregulate.

I mean, that we possibly can at the moment. I mean, if there's more things that are identified, please share and we'll take a look at them. So is your feeling that we really need to kind of bring in the federal delegation into this conversation? I really need.

So, with the new administration, there's a lot more news that you're friendly, all of that. Any of the dereg is going to have to come through with the federal delegation at this point. Congressman Kennedy told me that even though we're outside this district, he'd be happy to come out and check out what's going on out here. Obviously Curtis' office, we have Burgess on the team.

I've got good relationships with Blake Moore, if you need to have him down. We can reach out to Celeste if you need to. I don't know if she's quite as interested. Wilson, help us.

Wilson? Oh, Brad? Nothing lost to Curtis. Oh, that's my name.

Curtis. Yeah. I knew that. I was like, what's happening?

Wrong race. He's a good guy. He's not going to help us today. He's not going to be a lot of help.

Curtis. Do we know if I need to be in our state legislature that has to be an inroad to the executive mansion or to the leadership of the House or to the Senate at the federal level? So the answer to your question is yes, and they're already coming. So again, so then is there a next step or are we just sitting on our hands?

What do we need to do? No, I think we need, I think the conversation with the home allegations we put together. And so we just need to get Curtis. He talks as well, in on that conversation.

He's been in the conversations with Rocky Mountain, so I'd imagine so. He talked about leveling our energy this year, so it's right in line with what he wants to do anyway. The other thing is, when I went to that housing summit, they talked, I guess one of the only good ideas that I walked away with was an infrastructure fund. So that would help obviously cities like yours, you know, when you want to do it, but you just simply don't have the resources.

And I'm hoping that the legislature does something with that and that would be, you know, state level. So we need to pull all the levers, federal, state. And also the funding, even if we did put together an infrastructure fund, it would still pull from other areas of funding. And when we met yesterday, we discussed, it's going to be another meeting budget here.

Can we take it from the Dondola fund? Dondola fund and a baseball fund. Dondola fund. And that's a case three.

Okay. I just wonder, like, when we talk about doubling our power input, that just, that almost feels like the five-meter-behind-on-the-road issue. Because the reality is we're going to consume almost 75% of that quote-unquote doubling. And that's with what we have.

That doesn't scale any of the existing data centers that are already here. We know there's a likelihood that others are going to come because they always follow each other. And that, I mean, to me, that doesn't sound like a plan. That sounds like...

Are we recently talking to Lehigh? They're trying to get things here. I'm sure they are. And Nefi.

Because Lehigh has their own power, too. If we do, if we were to build a power plant, can you charge impact fees for power or no? Is that not an impact fee? Anything.

Is that an enterprise fund? We can't as a city, but... Well, if we had our own power as a city, we could do an impact fee. That all comes from MET.

So if the state code change that would allow us to create power and keep it within ourselves instead of putting it back to the grid is power and impact fee eligible enterprise fund. So if we were to get the regulation figured out, and if we could do even a microneuclear reactor to get us something to get going, you know? Multiple micro nuclear reactors. But would we have to do it in the city?

Or could the... Because gas wasn't, right? I'm trying to remember that. It's been so long, but I don't think we could for gas.

But maybe... I don't remember. It's been too long. It's just the cost of building and paying for one.

So if we were to get the regulation figured out, and if we could do even a microneuclear reactor to get us something to get going, multiple microneuclear reactors. But would we have to do it in the city? Or could the... Is it possible for...

Because in other states, that's what they're doing. These data centers are building on-site power generation. The question is, do we want to be in control of the power? Because if we're going to continue to scale up, then we're always relying on somebody else solving that problem for us.

And if they're not motivated to solve that problem, then we're always at somebody else's mercy. I don't know where I stand on this, honestly. I don't know if it's, do we start our own power company again and open that road? And obviously, we'll have to work at the state and remove some of the regulations that tie things back to Rocky Mountain.

But it's super concerning because it's not going away. We know it's going to just expand. And seven to ten years is not a timeframe that any of us can work with. Well, and honestly, it's not just...

Yeah. Honestly, it's not just the data centers that I'm thinking about. I mean, we're going to get the high end share of the population growth over the next 20 years. And do we have the power to even be able to power those homes?

And electric cars and... We don't have electric cars or industrial, other... I know. That's the thing.

We also use homes, our grocery stores, our schools. Which, by the way, if there's more to talk about on power than create, I want to know what committee, what committee. The other question I have from the state level, but it's obviously a hot topic around here, is school budgets. So, you know, that keep getting cut.

They get less and less. And... Is the stake in the fund schools better this year? Or do you think it's going to get a hit again?

We put more money into schools every year. So what cuts are you speaking on specifically? The income tax. Oh.

Yeah. When we generate more, right? And we use about the same. Like, I don't very likely see it go up again.

So you think funding for schools is going up? So, we're actually... No. So, we're seeing an interesting little shift in how taxes come in, and the first batch of numbers, I can't remember the term for it, comes out today.

I think it's in their meeting line. Tronch? That's my favorite word. I like it.

Thanks for falling off my neck. Rolls up. Sorry. So, income tax is actually down a little bit, and sales tax is up a little bit, which is interesting, because we generally have a surplus in our income tax fund and our general fund, which is funded off-sales tax and other things, has suffered.

So, we're seeing a little bit of a shift in that, and so Supreme is sure to know exactly what that shaped out to. And then the other question, I know they're working on legislation, if you can maybe tell me if you've heard or what's going on. So, as far as moving forward with our district and funding, in the case of a split, we're needing new legislation to be able to bond and so forth, because now, all of a sudden, we have to split off from ASD. I don't know why we did that.

And we can't build a school. Yeah. So, for three years. It takes six years, we're already behind.

So, what's the state doing? What do you think's going to happen? Well, my last conversation with Julie, and you guys should ask her when she gets here, was that that was in process with somebody already. Actually, we're going to keep growing up.

That's why I'm wondering what you guys know and what's the support level. It'll get support. We're not worried about the support. Okay.

We'll lift the crap out of it. And what about a special session to elect school board members? That's not cool. Yeah.

That's actually another question. Yeah. There's a timeline. There's like a little graphic I'll find and send to you, but next year will be the school board elections.

Yeah. Well, actually, so here's the question. If we can advance it. Originally, it was supposed to be a special election in June.

When they did SB, or no, HB 303, they changed it to where it happened in November. We're wondering why is it not a special election in June so that we can start. So we can elect our school board and start moving forward. Can I tell you something on that too?

The county needs to district for the board members too. But there's a timeline for you to start to stay in place for them. We've got to do that too. Is it 45 days or something like that?

Yeah. But the candidates, if they have a special election, they have to sign up by camera. So we're already, but I agree. I was pushing for that earlier.

Why are we not doing a special election? We'd like that to be. 304. 303.

Oh, okay. We'd love a lot of information to be put back in because of the benefit. It started sooner than later for that school board. I agree.

So. It was there. Since the elections are partisan again, where they weren't for a few years. I don't understand that.

State school board, not local. We're talking local. Local. Yeah.

I'll reach out to Brammer and ask him about that provision. I mean, with them being so involved in the top 11, I can't imagine he's not aware of it. Yeah. And has a reason.

So. Be aware. Understand that Julie's working with Grover on that. She doesn't want the special election.

In her mind, she needs time. In my mind, she's not here yet, is she? It's not her that's creating this. It's all she's creating.

So no offense. I love her to that, but I prefer June election. She prefers the November. So I'm going to tell you that what she's working with Grover isn't necessarily aligned with.

Most of it is. What does it do for us if we do an election in June? We could bond. We could get started on pirates.

Did they bond though? Well, that's the, in May we'll be able to. If the bill passes. Yeah.

If they pass the bill, then they could, that would be a bond. Are they going back to date on bill 6 March, June 1? So here's the thing. Three days later.

If that bill goes through, couldn't there be something added to it that ups the date? Or you're saying. It takes effect. You wouldn't have time to sign up to run and then hold the election, print the ballots.

We'll just have like a box of marbles. It would have to happen in January, which we're already behind April. So. I don't know if it's the timeline she should take impossible.

Cause we would have to do a special election or a special session to change it. There's just not going to happen before January. Unless you know something I don't. No.

I mean, I don't know how the timeline works. I mean, there's a possibility that there's consensus at the very beginning of session. We could not approve. It's an immediate effect.

And then an immediate effective date. That's what I was just going to ask. And then sign up in March and vote in June type of deal. I mean.

I would prefer that. And I suppose you said the same thing, right? You brought it up and I stole it. The problem is the likelihood of that happening.

It's got to be largely consensus. If there are people, if there's communities, you know, whatever reason not wanting. I don't think the communities. I don't think anybody in the Prop 14 or 11 are going to be against that.

It'll be school board members. Well. And frankly, I don't think you'd find opposition in the Provo, or excuse me, in the Orham, or the Grove area. Because the decisions we made in battle in ASC this last week.

We just said, please don't close our schools. We need to make those decisions as a local community. So the sooner we can get local board for them as well. I just think it starts to hash some of those things out sooner or later.

I don't know off the top of my head what those... There are sets timelines. You have to have it open for so long, so far in advance, to file as well as the campaign, you know, all the print ballots and all that. I just don't know when you back up from a June deadline where that lands.

What's the name originally? July. It might have been July. I think it's July.

I think June because that's when we have our... It was originally July. I guess what we're asking, what I would ask is for you to look into that. Sure.

I wrote it down. The elected senator Brammer. See where you go. Okay.

We've got Brammer. Okay. We've got Brammer and people know about it. Who's this secret?

Bacon. Yeah. There's going to be a special election is next on the 7th. We don't vote on that.

No, we don't. No. Kristen Shadrae will probably give me the record. I don't know if you don't.

He's keeping me. I am. He's like, I don't know. Are there any other major things that we...

I have something I want to... Can I just add real quick back to the power? Yes, we can charge impact feeds for power. You can't open natural gas.

It's questionable as to whether we can just charge it only for generation or if we have to have distribution with that as well, but we'll look through that. I'll reach out to Scott Sandel and just see if in what they're contemplating currently in the draft bill that they're working on as far as allowing communities to build and generate their own power. What kind of... What's going to be the triggers for that and how best to...

And then obviously when there's a bill, I'll send it over and then you guys look at it and see... Not only that, but other things that you obviously are seeing this impact on in most communities and stuff. There's other things that are jumping up. So we would certainly work with stuff in the high detail.

I think we know we're going to need help financially. I guess we're going to need federal money for this and state money. There's no state money we have, we'll tell you that right now. There's probably current money isn't, but to be able to generate what we need to, perhaps that's something that could just...

The way to take out of our roads, that's kind of an issue. You guys will see. So you follow up on the energy, I'll follow. Reconvene on Wednesday.

I wanted to make sure that each of you who are representing in some of our lobbyists had a copy of this. And I want to talk a little bit about the CHA, about the commission on housing affordability. I really think we would benefit as a community to meet with both Representative Ray White and Senator Fillmore. Oh, Ray Ward.

Excuse me. Or Stephen White. Stephen White. Yeah.

Stephen White. And Representative White. So Stephen White. It's time to get represented.

Senator Fillmore, yeah. I think... Excuse me. And then Senator Fillmore.

Because I just think that... I think that they're considering and drafting legislation that's going to be, and is, and has been, disproportionately impacted to people in the city. I'm going to say it that way. And with that in mind, I'd really like to open up a conduit and have a conversation that allows us to get in the game with them.

To understand what are the pressure points that they're dealing with. How can we modify our structure to become a partner rather than a resistant receiver of new law? I don't know how else to say that. Because it's obvious that we're going to be impacted by that.

And I also want to lobby the legislature and would like each of you to at least start to have some of these conversations about... How do we tie, or can we tie, infrastructure funding proportionally to those communities that are taking the funds of the requirement of the affordable housing? Because we know that Eagle Mountain, Saratoga Springs, and Northwest, unfortunately, Utah County is taking the brunt of that for Utah County. I'm not saying other communities aren't helping.

I'm just simply saying we're taking the lion's share. We're at 1,200 emergency residential units year-to-date. Saratoga Springs is over 1,400. That's 2,600 units, and we're not done yet.

And 27% of those are multifamily, right? Yeah. And so there's a lot of it. And part of why I want to distribute this to you is that this affordable housing mortgage assistance program is being generated.

We just adopted it. I'm sure you're not aware of it yet, but it's putting to work those RDA funds that are being generated by Meta and Tyson. A couple million dollars are in that account right now. And every year there's a lot of it.

We've got 2,600 units, and we're not done yet. And we're not done yet. And 27% of those are multifamily, right? Yeah.

And so there's a lot of it. And part of why I want to distribute this to you is that this affordable housing mortgage assistance program is being generated. We just adopted it. I'm sure you're not aware of it yet, but it's putting to work those RDA funds that are being generated by Meta and Tyson.

Right now. And every year there's further funding that comes into that. And so we've tried to target an opportunity to help people get started. And maybe Cliff could speak to that.

I'm asking if you would do that. Yeah. So under the RDA provisions in the code, there are a number of programs that a city could do for a moderate income housing program. And so there's one that we've adopted is this one, and it makes use of the RDA affordable housing dollars.

Um, and, um, we have targeted it for people up to 120% AMI public employees as the primary, uh, target. Um, but we are just about to initiate this to start in January. And, um, one of the things I think makes this possible when we were talking to a lot of other cities about their programs, a lot of the affordable housing, you know, the homeownership programs are capped at 80% AMI. And there isn't much product out there.

And, um, so we put ours up to 120 because that's what I think ULCT and some legislatures got changed a year or two ago. If you're buying for home ownership, we can go up to 120. So we've done that. Got a little pushback from, uh, department of, um, workforce services because they were like, well, wait a minute.

120 isn't, isn't moderate income housing. And we're like, yes, but the legislature allows us to, and it includes up to 80%. So we just kind of want to put it out there. If you get any pushbacks on that, it's because we're following the state code that's allowing us to do that.

And we think with this program, we can put 40 more people in or 20 more households into a homeownership situations over the next year. In our city, help them with some funding source. I just wanted to make a comment about this too. Maybe I'm the outliner on this, cause this is a conversation with Kevin.

I'm the outliner on this. One of the missing components of this conversation, though, is the honest part. The honest part is that there's only so much that you can do at the state level that we can do at the municipal level. And we're eliminating the only people who really impact price.

And we are going through all of these hoops and really punishing cities that taking the zoning away and handing it back to the state, what does that do? It doesn't create an affordable product. It never will. What it does is it removes regulation because at the state level, they're not investing in communities.

That's the reality of it. They're making decisions. I mean, you don't represent Moab. I mean, how that ends up being down there, you have responsibilities in this area here.

And that's not an indictment. That's just reality, right? We're making decisions at the state level for communities that are trying to create an income, a tax revenue income from tourism. And we've effectively changed the whole face of that city by pushing housing initiatives that don't really meet with what they're trying to accomplish there to be able to survive.

Because they don't have manufacturing or things like that to generate money. Theirs is going to be tourism, but their tourism is probably not going to frolic with the kind of things that are being pressed. So the second part of that, though, is if we're going to continue to let the developers drive this, they need to be realistic and be part of the conversation of you control price. You control land.

You control building. You control labor. They've been part of that conversation, but they haven't changed the prices. I know.

So that's exactly what happens. We come in and we do all the things that we're required to by the new state laws. We do smaller units. We're doing more units per acre.

And what do they do? They fill every single, into that thing with a million dollar home. Yeah. And that's, you're like, how do you, how do you not take some responsibility for this affordable housing thing when you don't intend to build an affordable house?

You're just looking for units. Well, and it's market driven, right? And we know that the more we get involved with the various entitlement programs that pump money into the market, we're just putting people who don't qualify in direct competition with those who do without actually increasing the inventory amount. So we know there are a lot of things that are not going quite quickly.

One of the things that's happening right now in the housing market, and I don't know if you guys are even aware of this, the competition between the existing market and the new market, there is no competition. The existing, the new market is undercutting the existing market. So if you want to sell your home right now, you will have to lower your price. Because the things that the builder is able to do, because again, they control the price.

They are absolutely undercutting with all of their discounts, which is now driving the home values down. I mean, they have absolute control over this, yet they're hamstringing the cities with- And that's inflated home prices anyway. People bought high. They're not going to sell their homes.

They're going to sell their homes. Yeah, so people aren't saying that about us. They're saying that about other communities. They're not saying that about us.

They fully recognize with the amount of growth that we have going on that we are doing that. So we are not the problem child when that conversation comes out. So are you thinking that the bills were basically when you're hitting a certain benchmark? So that was the suggestion.

Yeah, that was the suggestion. That's a good idea. Over a certain percent. The number of building units would be a great one.

Or even vested units. Because then it shows that we as a city have entitled these things. It's on the development community to actually get them built. Like, if we could get an exception built into it, I'd be fine.

You can put whatever you want in all the other cities. I don't know what conversations you're in, but all the conversations I am are absolutely blaming our city. So we must be in different rooms. And I'm blaming the cities, too.

No, blaming the cities, yes. Blaming this little section of the world, not. So what are you hearing? If you're having different conversations, what are you hearing?

Right. It's easy to blame the cities, right? That's what -- I mean, you look at -- just look at our voting records and which bills we supported with the House and community. You look at who funded who.

I think that you have an ally in me as far as someone who's willing to stand up to and fight for the city. I know that I was recognized by the utility of cities in town. There's someone that did that in a closed room. I thought things didn't get out of there.

Well, I was naive. But apparently they do. When no one's listening, I'm advocating for you. I know that we need to work together.

But I also know that if you don't stand up, then they're going to run over you. And they, you know, they kind of have the designated legislators, right? The three that we mentioned, who are the go-to. It's interesting that none of them live in our area.

Right. Because they can get us to run. At least they can get me -- they can get me to run those types of bills. So, yes, the conversation needs to happen.

But, you know, we need to do it in solidarity, you know, together with the high-growth cities. You know, my understanding is that after going to the -- you know, there's the Miller development that they're looking to put in Saratoga Springs. And my understanding is that they -- from Rich is that they're trying to get this coalition of cities over 5,000 to act as a block. That's something we're working on.

And I can tell you that that's -- again, we need to work together. Because it's easy for them to dismiss two votes or three votes or five votes. But it's much harder if you've got 80 cities that are in this, you know, 5,000 population or greater. And, you know, not only their city managers -- well, not even -- well, I don't know if there's a city manager, but your elected officials.

If you've got 80 elected mayors and elected council members all signing a letter and sending it saying we oppose, that's much harder to dismiss than a couple of votes. And so we need your support. You know, we have the vote, but it's harder to dismiss that many elected officials. I think when we have these meetings, by the way, I'm always going to say this.

Whenever we have state officials here, I will always invite Mr. Stewart, if that's okay. Because what happens is when they leave this room, he's still in their ear. Hey, remember what you said.

Hey. And he's the one that's going to hold their feet. They can tell us whatever they want. And then they go up there and say, yeah, I forgot.

I forgot. I mean, really, right? Jared, you call me more than he does, man. But they do know that we know how they vote.

I'm not saying this just for any other reason, but that's why we have a guy like Mr. Stewart to be here to help us advocate at that level. So, I agree with the meeting. I agree with inviting those people.

I also want to invite Mr. Stewart every chance we get. The other thing I would add is, you know, you've got to contemplate about, I mean, because the representative you're talking about are largely talking to the lead, right? Camdeal.

And so it may make sense to have Cam there just to continue that. That's why I invite you so you can tell us what I'm missing. One thing that you may not know, so in January, Camdeal is coming to the meeting that we're having. It's going to be an American sport.

We already have, there'll be seven cities already committed to being there. Riverton's joined, and I'm hoping that we'll be able to add the other three that were involved in the Alpine School District split. That'll take us to 11. But I think it's a really, we're working on the conversations to get Southern Southern County and the rest of Utah County cities to come and have this conversation about housing.

Because it affects all of us, and Camdeal wants to be there to hear what we have to say, because we're the high growth areas that are taking the brunt of this. And we want to stand exactly as you're saying, as one, and say, enough is enough. Well, I think certainly, you know, as you talked about, you know, obviously having the Memphis and Waldery, Jeff Austin, make it. The other thing I would suggest, especially as it relates to our counties, you have down Southern and Mike McFell just became the assistant within the Senate.

So he has a seat, you know, kind of not quite at Jeff's level at the house, but now they're both at the table, at least in respect to bodies. And while cities like Santa Clara patient, they don't have the numbers as far as the percentage of their population and units and Tyler. They're right there with you in that same discussion of we even talking, you know, we've done our part as far as putting product and approving things. It's, it's not us at this point.

And so quit beating us over the head with the zoning and other changes. We're not the problem. And so I think grabbing them and dragging Mike McKellen and Mike, like Stephanie, Heidi is actually, because not every candidate. You guys are fortunate.

Not every legislator actually gives the rats about their city, but he can't. And these two do. We've got good ones. Yes, we do.

But no, Mike McKellen is another one. But there are, there are those that do, but a lot of them will give lip service. They'll show up to the people. They'll come around their election time and suddenly be very friendly.

What can I do? What do you care about? And then, you know, for the next year and a half, you have a hard time getting them to do anything more than say, okay, I appreciate your input and then do whatever. So, well, I'll tell you too, it's from a county perspective with our transportation funding this last go around.

Mike Hill really did help us go to the mats in the Senate. He really did. So he overlaps my Senate or my house district. So, I mean, he is one of my prime senators.

And when I've needed a heavy hitter in the Senate, he has always done that for us. He frequents Saratoga Springs. He brings his racehorses to Saratoga Animal Hospital. Mm-hmm.

So he drives on our roads and he spends a lot of time out in this one up in the woods. So he does care. He doesn't live here, but he spends enough time here. He does care.

He might be a pro young. So I'm not that long. So anyway, that would be a really big asset for us as a whole. And he was in the housing conversation we were having yesterday.

We're pushing back, adding those carve outs and those different things. Can I ask a question? Yeah. As we're trying to do this conversation, and by the way, every council is reaching out to other councils.

It's not even out anymore. The town began, but it's not that anymore. Now we have everybody reaching out to everybody. Who else do we need to target?

What other areas do you feel like would be impactful to this conversation so we can reach out? Because maybe it's not just in Utah County. Washington County. Washington County?

Yeah. I have that feeling, that sense too, but what about up north? Because I know that they're impacted. That's an area that's still growing.

Not at the same rate. Not like the other ones? No. It's us.

It's Southwestern Salt Lake County and it's Washington County are the big hinge points right now. Is it specifically Hurricane Washington, St. George? There's only three guys down there.

So, I mean, from a house perspective. Oh, okay. But it's a smaller area. They are feeling the pain.

So, when we make growth points, they back us because they'll be us next. Would it be useful to build some bigger relationships with some of the members of the private sector? Because clearly, some private sector members are helping to drive this forward. But if we were to get some builders and developers that are a little bit more for responsible growth and bringing them with us as a voice with that?

I think it's always helpful. The more voices you can have on the team, the better off you're going to be. Those are going to be smaller. Well, I know.

But the reality of it is, is it's a bunch of cities yelling about something or cities who've worked together and also brought the private sector in to address issues. It seems like a better tool for legislators to push back and say, you know, this is what we'll do. So, in GovOps last year, we had one of the housing bills either go through GovOps or for the subdivisions. But through GovOps, it added a lot more sticks and a lot more qualifications you have to meet in order to receive road funding.

And Perucci, who was over Herman Riverton and myself, actually got that bill held, worked with the committee, held the bill, and gutted those new requirements. So, one or two votes does have a lot of power. You just need to know how to use them. That's what I'm looking for.

And then, yes. And then also, we have been kind of discussing it softly, but essentially within the House, creating a growth caucus. And Bremer was talking about it yesterday, having Senate included with it, but all of the high growth areas, the legislators from those areas caucusing together to talk about policies. Like this, and how can we help, you know.

So, Mark actually brought us a list in our last meeting. It was in Cedar Fork. There are some cities in there that make me a little nervous because they tend to not share the same views that we do with growth. Salt Lake.

Salt Lake is one of them, and Orem is one of them. Do you feel like that the representatives for those would stand with us in that? Salt Lake is Democrat, so no. Right.

But Orem, yes. They absolutely. Stand with us. So this is a conversation.

And so I chair the Black County caucus on the House side right now. I'm the Senate chair. I think we're going to change that next week. But this is something that our entire county has been united on from a legislative standpoint.

And so there's a benefit to reaching out to you. Yes, there is absolutely a benefit to that. The people that represent Provo understand our pain. Orem understands our pain.

All of those areas. Vineyard, same legislators, they overlap Orem. What about Park City? Park City?

Park City actually would be friendly. Given these. So the legislators have -- Jeff was doing a great job at priming that pub before I even got in, and then I just broke my mouth on it every time anybody gives me an opportunity, and sometimes when they don't. So statewide, we are recognized as a growth issue.

Any time housing comes up, people will say, like, yeah, you guys actually might need to slow that down. And we're at Penn Station. Or people from all over the state will be like, oh, yeah, we can get your roads. And so at least on Team House, people know and understand -- well, they think they understand what we're dealing with, but we've been saying it long enough that it's being regurgitated back.

So if there are any of the cities, their legislators are likely going to be friendly. There are a couple that may not care, but I don't think you're going to find anybody on the House side right now that's like, no, Eagle Mountain's not doing enough. You guys need to do more. That conversation is not a thing anymore.

As we reach out, I think a lot of these are probably going to be two-by-twos, but we're going to grab two from each council to kind of go to these other councils. That's a great question. We're going to have a question. And we all know who each other are.

We have our own little support group. And but you'll still even the ones that don't try to, for the most part, at least know their councils. And when a council takes a formal position, it gives us a crap ton of cover to go in and say, my council took a vote. And this is a no.

And unless you can make these changes, I cannot get there. It gives us a ton of cover when you guys can do that. And so doing it, but also making sure that they let their legislators know this is what we did. You know, we were able to be better about that in our meetings, just by resolution to say, we don't support HB whatever by resolution.

And then send that letter. By the time you guys get into a meeting, that's going to be voted on and signed. So you're going to have to just test me. Whatever we can do to help support.

Take an offline vote and text it to me. Marcus is coming in. You're not helping. The attorney said, we're seeing Marcus.

He's like, friend, friend me, friend me. Marcus, put your ear on my side. You're able to do a straw poll. Straw poll, not offline vote.

That's different. We'll just do it like the legislature. I'm pretty sure the legislature doesn't mean that. Just for us, not for them.

Yeah, not for you guys. And it doesn't matter if you're school boards either. Thank you. No, no, no.

It's not a problem. Is there any other things that any of the council or Mayor Miller shared that you have anything, Jim, that you wanted to bring up when we have people here? I think just to the point of the SITLA project. It's not just one project.

It's a battleground. Every city who borders SITLA. If we lose, everybody loses. Because that's just the can of worms that's getting ready to open.

Right. So they're threatening to go. This isn't a Saratoga's Toby issue. This isn't your issue, especially in the ratio.

Saratoga's already made concessions. They agreed to. They came back, changed their mind and said, no, we want more. And so they basically said, well, screw you.

We're going to go get a bill then if you want to do a little one. See, that's what I was talking about this the other day. I'm telling you, that's it. That is going to be a major issue statewide.

The way that bill pops up, you're going to shoot a text that says this is the one. Yeah. So I'm not. So it's simply trying to develop ground because they're a state.

They want the authority to title and do whatever they want. Want to come in and just tell us what we have to do. They don't take into account. We have water for X build out.

We planned on it. We've got sewer for X. They don't care. We just have to service it.

They have to do this. We need to build it. Do they have water that they can bring to the table? Not that we've seen yet.

They're essentially trying to use an incorporated land. To have basically no input from municipalities to come through and get their own requirements. Enforce adaptations. But that sounds a lot like what they did in Olympia Hills with the Salt Lake County Unincorporated and Harriman and stuff like that.

And I feel like that relationship's a really important one. We need to all stand against that. Well, then they dump it on the city and leave and say, here's your development. Go service it with roads that aren't the standard.

Water that we don't have. sewer capacity that's not impact fees that are uncollected, whatever. The frustrating part is we've worked with them. You know, and then they keep saying the housing.

Between us and Eagle Mountain, we can solve the housing crisis in Utah twice. We're like 75% of the best units in the state. Or the governor's ATM on to cash and owners campaign promises. That's what it is.

True. Well, remember with you, you always knew the children, right? Yeah. Better build school.

Yeah, we still can't get our high school bill. Yeah. One nice thing is, at least, why we're on to sit there doesn't have a ton of credibility legislation right now. I mean, they've screwed up enough things before being one of them.

So I think if you're going to have an adversary that's trying to grow their kingdom. Those worst ones. Yeah. That's going to be tough.

I mean, as long as we're not asleep in the switch, that's not going to be hard to point back. But they've shown time and again, when given, going back to the Inland Court, signed the worst types of deals with the landfill and everything up there. It's been a disaster that, for the last several years, Speaker Schultz and Jerry Stevenson and others have tried to unwind and fix. And they're still just barely now getting their nose above water.

And I don't see those. Luckily, those are some pretty, you know, high up guys that are going to sit on like, yeah, no, we're not giving you guys the keys to the kingdom to go. We did that once and you guys screwed up. And so I don't, it's also our house majority leader in this area.

They're trying to screw. So we got to keep that in mind. Is there anything that can be put in place to put greater oversight over this? Because honestly, when we start having discussions about institutional trust lines or even school boards, they're largely their own governments.

Essentially, it's how they function. And the reality is that the communities that they come into, they abuse. That's the reality of it. And then they come in.

It's almost like, you know, what the reputation of developers are. They come in, they make the money, they go, and the impact is left of the community to deal with. And whatever that impact is, there's no consequence whatsoever for them doing that. I mean, how they drop schools is one of the issues and the impact that it does for traffic.

That's the institutional trust lines. They can come in. They can come in and their only goal is as many units and high profits as they can drive. That's not an ethical way of developing land or building housing.

That's in their mandates. I know. That's the, that is problematic in that because there is no being a partner. There is how we impact the community.

It's, it's, it's purely driven on almighty dollar on that. And that's, that's one of those things that probably needs to be re looked at and say, well, yes, but there needs to be some common sense in this as well. There needs to be good partnership in this with the communities that you're going to be impacting, whether it's a municipality or a county, a incorporated county, because the impact falls on them to take care of the decisions that they're making. And some of those are huge impacts.

And to Brett's point, he was talking about the roads. Our largest impacts in Eagle Mountain, a hundred percent were simple land, a hundred percent. And then they impacted the roads in such a great way that we cannot catch up with the impact that they created. Or they're not even them.

They're not even close to them. Yeah. So to Jim's point, I think that's some of those things that we would love the support of going in and saying, how can we, maybe we can't solve what has already occurred, but in the future, there needs to be some control points in there that say, now, wait a second. In order for this to happen, there also needs to be some of these things that you take some responsibility for, because right now, they don't really have a lot of responsibility for anything.

Well, so I understand the mandate to get as much money as possible out of a project. But what if there was like the roads that they, the land for roads have to be conveyed at like agricultural prices or like a school site has to go with X amount of units or something like that? Because that way we are taking care of some of the biggest impacts that they make on our cities. So I know that we can't just go in and throw a bomb and say, no, we're not doing it visually.

But if we can tweak it and manipulate it a little bit so that it actually addresses some of the biggest concerns, then it's not as bad for them to make money. It's just, we need to do this. It brings up to the point that maybe it's something that needs to be determined when they're talking about some of these housing bills, even to the governor's level. If we're going to have impact and say, we have, or you have to follow these guidelines, there also needs to be a responsibility for the impact that creates the schools.

For every so many housing, you know you're creating an elementary school, period. And for that to just be left to the cities and the school district to try to figure that out every single time to develop or create an impact. So this is a, this is a great discussion. It's probably not a smooth time to, uh, to, to, to wrap it up.

We can come back to it. Jared's going to have to leave, uh, pretty soon. And he'd like to be engaged in that, uh, search over annexation discussion. So we can always come back to this.

Yeah. Come back. Thank you. Thank you for coming.

Yeah, of course. Yeah. Um, Jim, just to have on your radar, the Utah Population Committee should be reaching out to your state if they haven't already. Okay.

Um, they reached out to you guys yesterday, but we're working on a shift in data that should help our numbers for transportation distributions. That's good. So. And just, uh.

So please be nice and play ball with them when they go, cause I need all the information I got. And I, you're welcome to stay, uh, as long as, as you can. If we do leave, we've got some gifts back here. So.

And mayor, just one more thing. Uh, we were talking about the housing affordability and, and, uh, the report with the, with DWS. So can deal copy last week in our conference, the city managers and said, Hey, you know, our report did come back with some change with some corrections that we need to make. And we're working through that.

Um, and we'll have it done and everything that he mentioned that your city was on a list of those that haven't been communicating with DWS. And, and I said, that's absolutely wrong. We've been talking with them since since the very beginning. Um, and so if that word gets out, no, we are absolutely doing our part.

And Heidi and I both interface regularly with them. So they've been in close contact with us. Okay. Who at DWS?

It's Alyssa Gamble. Oh, what's up? Yeah. Cool.

Awesome. Well, thanks guys. There's tons more that we're going to be talking about, I'm sure. Jim, why don't you set this up for us.

Do you have to leave at 10? Is that what I do? 10:15. Okay.

Chris, when he had his computer, he didn't bring your stuff, but he did all the overlays from your system with the roads. That helps for us to see what we're missing and where we don't connect. It's both in the north end of the city plus the east side. For you guys, I'll be your west.

Before we get to that, are there any other things that we need to file or do as the people who put the prompts in to finalize anything? I was just reading the bill while we were talking. Chris told us we had to file something within X amount of days or something. That seems right.

Or do we? It was something that we had to file within 45 days, right? And is it after it's caucus? Is it the request for the districting or something like that?

I have no idea. But in addition to the school site stuff that we were just going to talk about, I also want that we're just going to talk about for us to start the conversation of districting the seats and doing it in an adventurous way for all of our communities. It doesn't start after the campus though, right? Because they got to certify it.

I talked about this with Rich, where do they do it? The county does it and they do it by registered voters. Would it be beneficial to us to do a registration drive to get numbers up? I don't know.

Do they do it by registered voters or do they do it by people who voted in the last election? That's what the question is. Because when they do precincting or like delegate distribution, isn't that based on- So that's party-based. So my understanding is that, so I was talking with the principal, Michelle Price, over at Lake County Middle School, and when we were talking about how, you know, she was obviously against the support and her beef was, you know, well, we wouldn't have this problem with representation where, you know, even though students are there, they have four seats over here and there's three here because for all, it's codified, it says that, right, you have to draw the districts, but it's based on registered voters, not students, right?

So it seems like- Is it the registered voters at the time- At the time of census. Or is it previous election? Yeah. Well, you're talking about representation and that's at the time of census, which is why what we're telling us with Stephanie a minute ago, if they're gonna do that every two years and update our information based on other data, why wouldn't we be able to redistrict based on new data?

Well- Because that's part of our problem. You talked about redistricts, precincts more often than 10 years. Correct. So I would think if they were doing a district they'd be based on new information.

Yeah. The parking. Yeah. And school board is- Do we want to jump to the annexation while Jim's still there?

Yeah, that's what we're- that's what we're talking about. Yeah. The annexation has to do with this, though. This is about land- Right.

Annexation. While we've got it here, so- Yeah, 'cause we're going to wisdom, so- Yeah, why don't you let us know what you guys are looking at on Tuesday? On Tuesday for our annexation? Yeah.

We're- They haven't made a formal application yet, as you know. I thought they did. That's the whole reason this came up. We did not receive one in front for the formal- So what drove- what drove the- the ask of the mayor to write a letter of support there?

For Tom? Yeah. Well, originally it was, you know, is Eagle Mountain going to oppose us and tie us up for months? Do you want Eagle Mountain to oppose you?

No. But- Twice. I mean- You know, I mean, that's always the question with any annexation. I mean, we battle about annexations in Lehigh where the borders go like this and it doesn't make sense.

Right. For years. I just want us to be better neighbors than other neighbors that have caused you problems. What- what makes more sense is what we want to do.

And if that means it comes this way or it goes that way. To- I- what I'm most concerned about, Jim, and I'm cutting you off already, is a 18,000 unit- what do you call it? MPA? MAP.

You know, the mass- the area plan, the church is the one who's put it in the contract. They want to come to Saratoga because they're going to put it under their large EAP, district area plan. MAP. So that would be- it's not in the DAP right now and I'd prefer that it didn't get joined.

MAP. No. Our hope would not be half the densities. MAP.

Well, is there any way to control it once it's in? MAP. I think- MAP. Well, I mean, it's all going to come into negotiation.

If you guys come in and say, "We'll offer 85 townhomes per unit," they're going to come your way. I mean, that's exactly what I have at the 2100 North. MAP. I think you know- MAP.

does it allow them to transfer density that's in one area to a newly annexed area this is a whole discussion we haven't had yet we're almost premature on this okay got it you know because we haven't even had this fully program also i'll tell you my concern about that piece of land number one is the connection of the roads because of the two schools that the school district put right at the very juncture of both those roads and it is a nightmare already do you have that you probably had yesterday steve so we're trying we're yeah we're getting there's there's about 1200 students getting so like elementary approximately 1200 students in brookhagen which is right yeah we have no buses this is all walking until the cold weather and then we add all the cars to it so it's it's literally a traffic jam in those areas twice a day pointers the connection of those two things with the anticipation of the high school there now we're adding at least half of the student body driving to that high school through those roads which i mean that's a nightmare waiting to happen huge concern for the community that's there depending on how it's built you're often going to be poor that's i would like it to come that way rather than connect those two roads that's my wish but we also want to be good partners in connecting roads also that's a concern though how do we mitigate that without creating a disaster i think i think at the end of the day we don't know exactly what's going to be built there but this communication has to happen yeah you know i mean you look at edge's project there you know we've tried to connect into neighborhoods we've got stuff in lehigh that just dead ends hoping that when lehigh builds it connects so that we have that interconnectivity and that's a dialogue that's going to have to go on with every development plan yeah um tom and i have met in the past at lunches and said hey you know as we start to thought up against each other what's our plans where are we going to uh come together because we we have to have interconnectivity in neighborhoods but the main roads have to work also you know when julie said she was going to put the high school there it was first it was like oh that's close well mountain view and ormond succeeded in the pace area that way so you've got that but saratoga is long and skinny mountain view corridor allows that south end to come up to this high school without impacting regular roads outgrow it allows part of uh the ranches to come down to that school but roads are going to be the issue and we're going to have to plan them so that they're not doing like i was down at provost in high school that's a nightmare when the kids get out of cars driving through a neighborhood that's the last thing we as council would want that's because we're going to hear from every president day after day so that's what's going to happen the reality is that there really are five connections to that parcel you have four in silver lake and one that comes out of kynower valley that we could absolutely connect through there but it's exactly what you're talking about we're driving high school traffic not just for you know the normal daily go to school things but every time that there's an event you're going to have all of that traffic running through and unfortunately there aren't on those roads there aren't any speed deterrents on woodhaven silver lake uh we have stop signs on quarters crossing but we've already had one death on there that they ran through the stop sign they were going way too fast and it was a kid that did it it adding that many young drivers that are inexperienced on that with thousands of kids that are walking home is for me that's the hill i'm willing to die on i'm not willing to die on a lot of them but that that hill that's one where i stand in the middle of the road especially since i know all of them you know this is my community it's fair i mean it's going to be our community up there yeah i mean i live right down in the benches every kid going to high school is going to come up through our neighborhood yeah so how are we going to major roads to a main road so so what are we going to do to make sense of this piece then first of all it's not high density that's more traffic yeah and then what's going to happen to this piece is going to be one of my questions too because that's also that's in our future annexation but if we you know i mean almost say we should draw a line here if you're going to take part of it because it just doesn't make sense to do what you said lehi lehi has jagged lines well that's what's going to happen here if you don't take that piece the settlement piece i don't know if that's in your plan it's in ours it is it is in there so it's in both this is our our plan goes here uh then this goes up into the original i must have some buildable anyway yeah one of the things that we do need to on your road plan and our road plans we haven't updated how that mountain or that mid valley road comes and connects the mountain view corridor we need to get that clarity because that's going to impact this piece and the piece directly south of it how that connects to mount view corridor because right now it looks like it winds all the way around it goes up at the foothills and that's not the the direction that the road's going to go it's going to have a greater impact down here we need to get that like i said i think a lot of the conversation you're asking today we've got the cart before the horse i don't even know if we got the horses well you know once you say yes to it then it's kind of out of your hands you want to have the conversations and lay out kind of all yeah all the things and i teach your concerns from what chris and i've talked about they're the same we don't want cars pounding through a neighborhood like provolt we want egress and that for this high school to be in and out of you know a high school is needed and you're going to have probably two more in addition to the one you got is there a conversation is there a conversation where we could talk about one of your other landowners doing the land swap and moving that school in north i don't know why not but that's not a conversation for us that's a conversation well we can we can help drive we can help drive that conversation with them right yeah if we're on the same page joel and julie are they online they're coming at 10 o'clock is when they're available i mean yeah i don't i know you guys don't like it i'm indifferent on the location frankly um but that's a for me that's we're not a party to that like we know that okay that's not it's not it's not where they put half the schools the reality is the decisions that they're making for the schools you've got high school middle school elementary schools it's created a nightmare on pony express and mountain quarter that you guys are well aware we have the same right 400 well yes that's what i'm talking about it's that section right there on the south side of pony express we have three elementary schools that are all within about a half mile quote some two of them are closer than that adding a high school to that mix and all of the development that's going to happen in there we already know the pressure point is pony express not the corridor and regular road that's one of the worst areas in this area for for traffic and we're adding more traffic to that intentionally yeah not us but you know i think that's that's the concern like why not make a decision that would have the ability to move some of that traffic north to another part of the city through other roads so we can relieve some of the oh not about that i have a discussion on school start times when school is out 15 minutes to work school's in and i think that's going back to more local control here's the crazy part about this we know that we have way too many kids in those two actually all three of those elementary schools right there bringing on this piece here are they not going to probably try to put an elementary school there to try to take some of that because how else would you redistribute those things without trying to bus people somewhere else well that's a likely likely scenario to add another site in mount saratoga but they already know some that will take pressure off those other elementaries um there's a school site in wander already um i don't know that wouldn't necessarily take any pressure off of that's just going to take care of wonder that mount saratoga is that mount saratoga school though it's going to take its own though well it'll take pressure off thunder and and i don't know what and what's that school called yes silver lake and brookhaven so okay what about is that the one in your neighborhood down yeah and then right up the street you can see just to the left there's a pony express that goes up port porter's crossing that's right off the street right by that uh yeah just right where's the where's hidden uh it's farther west yeah so those are some those are some of the concerns that i have like i i know i've talked to you about this and jim i've said some of these things too laying everything out in in if we're on the same page that makes it a lot easier to conversation because we do want to connect roads also i think that's a something we've been very adamant about but how do we not back to that local control we're we're finding kids where the cities are starting to age out my neighborhood um like when jared lived by me it was packed with kids you could barely walk all day yeah you know it's all aging out most of our kids are getting married there's a lot of empty nesters our saratoga shores is starting to have kids come from other areas and that's something that the local control is going to be able to look at and say you know what maybe we bust them from this area maybe you know we don't have to have that school next to it and that's something you're starting to get too you're starting to get neighborhoods well i think the conversation around that's my split start times you know start time they all can come back on the table but we're going to have that control now versus just a blanket right right standard start times was the easiest answer because they didn't have to think let's just because we've asked the council to have staggered start times to help control traffic especially in areas where you've got especially schools west lake vista that it's like everybody at once they're walking in communities they're not everybody takes their kids to drive yeah except me because i guess i don't mean that i made them long the kids in my neighborhood live less than a mile from cedar valley high school and they all drive they all drive they complain about the parking lot being full and it takes forever to get out i thought you'd be home if you walked exactly yeah but they don't want to chris remind me where this doesn't line up to because this so this would be the mid valley road it comes down here it goes up the one that didn't match would move on that do you not have our master tracking on your gis that's no i i looked on your gis as well you can find it on your uh this is what i found on your website oh our internal gis that's your internal i can see both because this this map matches our map which is i don't the hidden valley mid valley road coming down right around there so one of the one of the concerns is i don't know personally i don't even know what the school is looking at that we haven't seen a cyclone east half the west half of how this road i don't know ties in they held up with this i thought i mean this discussion goes right through the middle of this you knowing that we as a council want to work with you as a neighbor on this all i all i know on that there is i know the school district came and asked us to amend our master transportation plan to their school we said no we're not not getting into that this is our transportation plan work around well we expect i haven't seen a cyclone oh i didn't know you could do that that that road was intended to be and i i was having this conversation with dave a minute ago that we don't want driveways on that road that's intended to be a 45 plus which road mid valley oh we're looking for 55 this road is going to be a connection to mountain view that's just uh we're hoping to not get that that goes to 400 400 south that's what it connects to in saratoga right there well the mountain view is going to connect too right yeah yeah sure but i think mountain view is going to be the intended freeway yeah yep well i read north yeah we're north so this will still be freeway here mountain view okay and then this connects to 400 south which goes up to pony up here see yeah i'm going to tell you my hope honestly is that we don't have a stop there if you want to get a people going north the huge growth of legal mountains out and not have them land in saratoga springs but it needs to be continuous on the mountain view and get them out this should be an interchange because this is still freeway i'm saying not even a stop a continuous flow interchange now that's a udot decision right it's not a saratoga decision right but see that's the problem with way we've got up this drug design even they've said well that's a local street no that's it that's our connection from that yeah it's like i mean this this should be on their plan down to grand view this is freeway still down to here after here it's not after here it's it's controlled or something like that it's controlled intersections yeah after grand time to grab you and that's that's the one that we were looking at saying well does this road need to come down i always told you i thought it went to grand view but it curves and goes up here huh yeah i don't care i've always seen it curve up to 400. it's cheaper to not go down there in every way i have no idea what the topography is i can't remember to get it through there this follows right along that's a lot flatter that route it's fine with me it seems like on your plan like i said it went through the i think our planet it comes more this way well that's the problem with grandview is we really can't widen grand view right yeah it's stuck and you have a school there but you don't have any driveways on it right no driveways there's no drivers on the driveways it it doesn't matter as long as we work that out but back to the annexation i mean what what can or should we do as cities i mean we had this conversation earlier about it's up to the landowner if they want annex but how can we work together to make sure we don't adversely we're not going to offer them density as long as you don't offer density but well you have the ability to control the zone and the annexing so so what they've what they've asked is i'm not sure i'm familiar with saratoga but all the land to the east that you're looking at is part of something called the dap yep district area plan yeah the district area plan gave the church 18 000 units over 3 000 acres and commercial a bunch of other stuff you've already done a thousand right no we've done way more than a thousand of that how many units have been oh about a thousand acres yeah give or take correct me jim no you're about you're about right but we also down some some density when they ask for other things yeah we got their right off density what what i've been told what they're asking is for developmental purposes that gets put into the dap we adopt it but we've said that's fine but you're not we're not giving more density your density has to spread out so it it adds 162 acres to their 3 000 acres now we do have legislative authority in the dap to direct type and location so we can say yeah you can be in the dap but you got to match the surrounding area probably this is right behind this town homes yeah but it's only for one row because of a it was buffering right feather yeah so the rest of it's all quarter acre loss but there are town homes right yeah and so in the dap we've got legislative authority to say yeah we can we'll put you in the dap but what you develop there has to be light to the community why not just connect them into a zone you want rather than adding it to the dap i was going to say why i mean that's especially we can have and you have those conversations that's a conversation we can have because if they're looking to play have you been involved in that no i mean the discussion hasn't happened jess right but from the council we're up on the foothills same thing with silla we're not looking for town homes we're not looking for duplexes you know there are value to 5999 square foot lots because you can't put an iadu in basement i mean we can do quarter acre lots and have duplexes yeah yeah so i mean there's there's a fine balance this is both on the same page where they're trying to play the annexation game with both we're both in the same place and we're of the same opinion saying well if you try to do it with us this is where we're going to stand it's going to be single payment homes and you guys are there i think that the impact is not something that we're going to be worried about as far as the housing goes i mean the most valuable part of this conversation to your point is when we sit down and they make their formal application we're saying no this is what the two communities are looking for they can no longer run to you and say oh because that's exactly what happened at 2100 north they got 22 units they came to us for 25 and we finally said no and i think that's why we came together is so we can unify on how we can do that how we can make sure our roads are going to work together how we can develop that in a way that doesn't happen you know i mean when that discussion happens when chris and i are saying we've sat with eagle mountain city council we're on board this is what we want between the two they're not going to come here and do you feel like the rest of the councils oh yeah okay so i think that makes me feel a thousand times better because i didn't really know where you guys were frankly they have so much density that they'll never build what they are allowed to right but they're going to try we want it we want it on mountain we don't want it but we don't want to put density away from them no so we have to have the place that's what were you going to say bro well what i was going to say is i think that that really is the purpose of the discussion because all i heard is that the applicant has 18 000 units so they can transfer into this and do whatever they want with it well 18 000 but strategically if i were looking at that my thought process would be if if they want to annex it great we'll only go annex it bring it in under a zone that you're comfortable with it if it's 599 square yeah i mean they've got their erus the school's going to chew up brus but at that point then that's kind of what we're looking for what i would be nervous about is that they're going to transfer that you're going to get the applicant the right to shift their 18 000 units in there however they want and put it all around the high school and to create that track so bro we have that legislative authority to dictate where and how well but i'm i'm wondering if that's even the best plan i mean i i would without knowing what you know i want to caveat that my immediate reaction and i haven't dug into this would be that that i wouldn't be willing to bring this in under the current entitlements until i understood it better if that makes sense and i would want to discuss what type of entitlements we're willing to do as a council but i know that's not going to fall on us it's going to fall on you guys so what about that other piece what what what do you think makes sense because in my opinion we're going to just hash that out now and say are we annexed and that are you annexed in the settlement piece because if we're not i think we'll make that line a little straighter so we don't have issues with the the boundaries that we're talking about ultimately it's going to be up to the landowner yeah well it's similar they they're they're and if saratoga says we don't want it or if we say we don't want it then if we're on the same page honestly that changes the conversation with sibling to say well saratoga springs will give us more units breaker than even not worth we're in the same place this is our annexation line yellow so if you guys take this you're gonna have a little spur right here so i said either we should annex there or you guys should just plan on having that if they have 60 acres right there then we don't have access to that piece the only exit would be the mountain view yeah or the excuse me the valley and there's no connection that's going to happen yeah so so if we drew the line here and said okay let the church annex that be the school whatever but this new line we have something like that it becomes eagle mountain to tie into what we've already got going on here so some of this comes i think out of the we need we need school district people in this conversation because i don't have anything to them well well what i don't know is what is their plan is what is what is their timeline for the school if we push back on annexation say hey redo your annexation application what does that do to that other other timelines to say don't do 162 do 150 whatever that number yeah whatever that number is yeah i don't well it's not even the school it's the church right um well the the petition so this is the petition but it has a letter has a notice of intent to file a petition for annexation from the church and then it has a this um what's that you found this on my website no no no ken young sent us the request for the letter notice of intent to file a petition from the school district as the applicant on behalf of the church so okay i think there's one from each of them okay yeah i'd like to know um i mean frankly i'd like to know a site plan for that so i had a i had a meeting a couple of months ago maybe three months ago with the school district facilities group um business administration i don't know what they're called but um and it was about other things but they did i did ask about this piece and at the time they said their concept had it basically as far east as possible on the west side of of silver lake parkway and i asked them why is this one here okay and i think it's just because of it's it's less they intend to use silver lake parkway is one of the major i told them no we can't do that we're not going to do that um that's the worst one to do with the school right there yeah the school's literally right that's the elementary right above it yeah that roundabout you have the school crossings on it and the other three roundabouts on there all have school crossings on roundabouts and that's kind of where i was going heidi with wanting to talk to you about this at some point cities have to be able to say no to schools yes because um they bought land on all they had to do was look at our transportation plans and they bought it right on our main road now they're trying to do a swap but but we don't get to say no they built they built a high an elementary school right on the freeway basically the playground is going to be on the freeway we're all feeling the pain anything you can do like because we we presented with them two different locations and they said oh yeah yeah we'll go with that one and then so we didn't go to the meeting thinking we were okay no we weren't okay they bought the other one so and their excuse is the land is cheaper but was it cheaper for our taxpayers because our taxpayers had to all of the utah taxpayers had to put a stoplight in on sr 73 that's not cheap either so and they don't yeah yeah so if there's something where cities can have a little bit i know i know that school cities were getting in the way of schools and i get that and so there were some bad players and that's why the law is the way it is we're not bad players we just want to have a little more so it seems like it ought to fall in a similar process of zoning so you know like like cities could zone areas uh not not deciding not making the decision for the school district but you can say what's what's a potential school zone what isn't well really the conversation should be happening at you know when they're planning the the development i kind of made mention of this before the developers pay no impact for what they're what they're bringing to each of those communities every one of those houses impact and a lot of time for us and you guys it's not a conclusion there will be an elementary school created as a result of that but they have no impact for that they can place it wherever they want and a lot of times they choose that after the development is already down the road and then they do exactly what's on the same just for context that golden eagle road that goes right through both of those elementary schools was supposed to be one of our major roads we can't do that because of that so it absolutely killed an east west corridor because of bad decision making by the school the school district so now it's just a collective row so they've inhibited our ability to get citizens out because we can't say no to them so the law says you can't say no but the school has they have like no oversight if it makes you feel any better when they build the riverview our inspector walked by and said you're building on the wrong piece of property and they said we're the state you know what we're doing we can tell off our property then they came to us for a land swap because they had that's hilarious that was the best city council meeting to sit in they were lucky that it was a bank that owned it out of foreclosure and it was advantageous for them to swap we had no oversight and we told them we told them and they said they knew better and when they went to open it it wasn't their property in our city we don't allow electronics i'll find it marcus because there are very few things you can regularly do except for uh electronic signs that's the one thing you can say no to yes we can take this down with health safety and welfare but that's pretty like it's pretty unprovable yeah yeah there's a few traffic things well you don't want to say no to schools we just have to say no to stupid location right but it's very so if you were the legislator what language would you use that would it needs to be done at development those are things that the developer needs to be part of that conversation with the school district in planning it they're creating the impact now it probably needs you're suggesting impact fees on developers well i'm not just saying yes that's one of the things but but also where it should be designed in the neighborhood so it's intentionally well for example beacon point where the temple was in saratoga there's 1900 homes when they came in i said okay where's your two elementary sites your middle school your high school and they said we'll have to do that yeah exactly exactly the problem more than anything is that is is the price uh it's just yeah the school district will work they don't want it to get out in the public right for if they're trying to buy a property because the price will go up from the developer right yeah property owner and so and so if there were some requirement somehow that they that they got approval from the city for a property purchase or for yeah the location of it um before they actually go through with it because once they buy it it's like we have even like desert sky our new elementary school in overland in the middle of by courtyard park um it's it's too close to corner express parkway and so we had to add another access road to be able to wind traffic through the neighborhood because they bought it and once they buy it it's like well now we just have to work with them i mean what if there were some legislation that were created to look at developments of a certain size because that's really what you're talking about you're talking about smaller developments you're talking about the big impact of developments it just had a metrics that said in a development that has the potential for this many units or this many people you're going to have to contemplate in the development application location of elementary school middle school and high school to service this care based on your city's number of residents and kids you're going to have to make sure that you don't have to be able to be able to say something to the school that's what i mean the school needs to be part of this this like the agreement has to take place between and so yes my anticipation is that we're going to designate for the development of the community is going to work with the school district to cite those then that ought to be the location where it lands yeah the district should be looking at this is an opportunity for the engineers from the city to work with them and say you know here's the reality of it we don't want an elementary school on any road that services more than this many cars because of safety or within so many feet of it or so many feet of it yeah and also there needs to be adequate parking around that because we are in no bus area and so you're going to have the cars for every single event there and it needs to be able to handle that so that you don't create a corridor where one car can come down here for sure going to have a uh at least an impasse but likelihood of accidents that happen richard to your point i think this is where when the new school board comes on we as two cities need to say hey as you're planning sites here's some requirements have that local conversation that they want to do that with us right but they're not compelled to they're not compelled that's part of you set the tone up front saying hey this is what we're trying to do this was the point of local control because orm doesn't care if randy bowl wants it's true and and as a condition it's true you you literally set a price for that land to be sold in the school district i think it's a condition of approving the development applications you can certainly consider that we can't even dictate the size of a garage how are we going to be able to do there's nothing that there's nothing that prevents us from being done right now yeah and it's a development agreement so that it's a private contract okay that that is one thing that was within our purview with that if they agree to do the mpa i guess that's true but that only fits for like half of the remaining units that we have it's not going to solve the problem for the other or we can or we can have a deal with the school district and then we purchase the property for a certain price from the developer oh that's a great idea steve you just earned your salary today and i'm done mic drop he's gone today's wage not the rest of the year yeah and it's a day off anyway it's friday so you pretty much didn't earn anything steve so your salary today was zero i don't know that's actually a really good idea because i mean i don't know it just we do end up with really stupid school locations so did you just solve your problem i don't know if that solves it but um it helps it's a possibility now the city has to have the money for it and be able to do that but similar to saratoga so so i don't know all the details but you purchased park property for neptune or not neptune for a patron from the church right and then you're not selling it after that but you said that's what we said the price with the development agreement yeah anyway so in there we have x amount of years to execute it yeah so set aside property for schools in a way it's kirkton and mcconkey are very shrewd yeah it's 10 o'clock i know that there were some people that need to go at that time jerry's one of them have we talked about everything we want to talk about with the annexation well my biggest concern is that annexation is road connectivity but we're not able to really get through that today so i think we just have to keep the communication open i think we've expressed what our concerns are and when we get closer to that we've heard them i know audrey and lance have heard them have a talk with michael or steven i think it's all living on the same page we're not looking for density when when that application comes think about that corner piece of how how we navigate that you had your other jared what would you have them do just leave that and have us annex that corner about what you're saying i think that i think so and not because i care about that piece because i think we need it for our roads clearly state that if that's what you're thinking so that they hear you well i don't know i don't know the answer but the reason i'm saying that is because the roads how do we connect if we don't that do you protect you even if we land i sit and have roadways preserved for it i mean that road is valuable to you and us yeah that's not an eagle mountain only road it's really it really is one of the questions too is that road used to run us all the way up to the blm i know there's a desire for there still to be access to the blm in that corner and perhaps that road is still it but if not you guys have a plan to kind of we've just tried to work with the miller rules when they were talking like us to have trailheads and access yeah yeah we'll talk we'll talk you can stay i'm gonna put it in my ear and i'll still be on i'll be able to voice in the sky no we're definitely going to talk about the school still we just some people have to go on the road and sometimes they'll be recording you should probably know that you're in the next one so i expect julie will be along shortly i've sent her the links she was going to oh she's on oh she's on now i am here guys oh awesome ah okay so yeah so we just had a chat with um mayor miller and councilmember karn from certain springs because they had to come earlier uh just about the potential annexation there and some of our concerns and we wanted to get the school district's perspective and talk uh high school's sight and our concerns about that um so i don't know how to learn about that yeah i i'm not exactly sure either uh we'll always throw julie under the bus if she wants to start uh do you have a speech you want to make julie no speech um i feel like i've been doing enough talking over the past few months but yeah whatever whatever you guys are open to chat about let's do it can i yeah okay so my biggest um concerns are the location of the the high school for two reasons one it's extremely close to west lake which doesn't seem to make sense to me in terms of districting and all of that um the other concern and the biggest concern for us is it's um extremely close to three elementary schools um and um the way that we're looking at it the way that we're seeing it you're going to have high school kids driving down residential roads through residents through neighborhoods to get to school and they're not known to be the best drivers and they kind of need a little more structure than a neighborhood provides so we're concerned i'll add on to that too i think the the two roads that are identified basically come through our well actually there's five total one out of kiowa valley four out of silver lake three are going to be residential roads that come just a note just to know because they are dangerous first of all because of the the school the children foot traffic for silver lake elementary that's on that roundabout we we absolutely cannot push regular traffic through there without there being catastrophe um it also stops for that's another one of the issues the traffic literally stops on that road during drop-off and pickup and then on quarters crossing it's a 25 mile an hour road has three or three steps on the quarters it's two or three it will be three yeah so it's two right now three on there 25 miles an hour goes by brookhaven and pony express both of the traffic there plus all of the traffic from uh kiowa valley skyline uh and the evans ranch all comes up that in comfort with the school traffic every day and it's we've we've asked the the transportation uh part of alpine school district to come and view that and they come like you know 9 15 and like you need to come park there from honestly come see the impact as you're coming in from the high school middle school elementary school of um on pony express and then come up orders crossing woodhaven silver lake parkway and there's lines on all of them to to an absolute stop and then basically the stop right now is going all the way from mountain view corridor past ridley's all the way down uh past ranches parkway and at the bend before cedar pass ranch every morning and it does that from seven seven o'clock in the morning until about 9 30. uh the seven o'clock you'll miss probably about three or four lights uh going through that and that's all impacted by where the schools are located adding the high school to the south end of the of the silver lake community would be uh catastrophic frankly not just for the safety of the kids that are on those roads walking riding their bikes and you know they dart across the street but also the traffic we can't handle the traffic in that area with the roads that we have so then feel free to uh wait long chain you know okay um just to bring me up to speed a tad have you had any of these conversations with julie prior to today okay okay because i have not been in the loop so my reaction is we're almost a year into this contract negotiation and this is the first time hearing well we don't ever hear about the contract negotiations until after you're done that's part of our problem as soon as the first public notice came to saratoga springs that the high school was going to go there you're negotiating with the church julie and i have a conversation okay so this is not a new conversation but to donna's point also i'm scratching my head on the decision to put a high school right next to another high school in the service area that needs to be served is north and we literally put another high school in one of the choke points traffic wise that we are adding up to 18 000 units from the church in that same location i just feel like that the flat land isn't a good enough reason to bite in that area where we have impacted everything by adding more traffic center to to actually end there and we already can't get through there which is why we're trying to do all the road work that we're doing right now and this location has now created an additional choke point and problem so i guess my question is it's not finished we haven't funded it can we look at perhaps engaging with the landowner in the north end and do a land swap is that something that you guys would be interested in doing so rich help me understand here so basically what you guys are saying at this point is you're not interested in the high school being constructed at this location at all that's not what i'm saying i'm saying that the impacts pretty negative is what i'm saying and if there was another solution we'd love to entertain another solution but we also understand the absolute necessity of another high school being built right we're not trying to be a roadblock but if there is another solution we would and i think you're going to find that most of the people in saratoga springs are having that same conversation why there where we can't get in there to get our kids in there and then we can't get back out to get to work because now we're stuck in a life that we can't get out and we're watching it change over and over again i mean there's it's not just an eagle eagle mountain problem it's that area is a choke point for everybody that that's a thing we're trying to solve but adding that there exacerbates the problem right and we've talked about this before we've talked about there are concerns with traffic there are concerns about it i mean it's going to have um uh a feeder off of of mountain view corridor so do we realize that there's going to be some high school kids who are going to access it yes the kids are going to be coming from the south end of saratoga the goal is for them to use mountain view corridor now the kids that reside within um you know woodhaven silver lake uh porter's crossing that area those kids are probably going to to drive those roads but those are kids who generally reside in those areas um my concern with all of this and you know we've talked about it i get that it's not a stellar location but also we're struggling to find the amount of acreage we need that's not in the mountain in the lake i know you guys are more interested in a north uh parcel that's closer to um the gravel pit but that also comes with its own challenges with the proximity to um uh camp williams as well as just you know some of the challenges with the gravel pit in the construction and the access off of sr 73 i mean the reality is we have traffic problems all over eagle mountain and saratoga and any anything that we choose is going to exacerbate a problem putting a high school in a different location my concern with all of this is just timing um yeah we've had the property you know the property under contract for a year but my concern at this point with the annexation is that if we look at anything different at this point we're delaying the build of the high school and i guess that depends on how quickly you can close on the contract well but there's also been a lot of architectural work done to those that area so that would set us back just the contract as well as you guys are aware not only have we engaged in our pack we've also engaged a contractor so a contractor has already like an rfp has already been sent out and a contractor is ready to build and build specific to that site so we're not talking about just a different property purchase we're talking about all the soil samples that have been done all the due diligence we have to do behind the scenes and then the school is being designed based on that piece of land okay we were told that you didn't have a specific piece of land we the church has moved it like twice now but it's true i don't know julia did you hear what donna said what every time the church moves it you've got to redo that anyway right but that's correct we've had we've had to extend the contract now we've had four amendments done do you have a permanent site now there's my understanding that that they are close to that and there's no anticipation of needing an extension on the contract yeah all right so we had to do an extension because it was expiring in november uh last capital planning meeting we actually looked at the new site um and that's when we said we've got to read we've got to do the soil samples based on this one um and we're hoping this is the last extension the contract is only extended till january at this point so you're saying that the contract is is going to be executed that we're fully funded on this now you guys are ready to start breaking ground no we are not fully funded that's kind of where i'm going with this i mean we're really talking about paper still we are talking about paper one of the challenges though is we've got to fix the code to get the funding option forward so if we can get the if we can get the code fixed and adjusted at the legislative level then we can trigger the lease revenue bond and start building um you're you guys are do you think for a significant like months-long change and negotiating with um a landlord that i don't even know is willing to sell or what the purchase price would be and then you're asking us to potentially go back when we've already paid for the architecture and already put out for the rfp to basically redo the project um on a different level well it's not a new conversation so this isn't like an out of the blue this is something that we talked about before the landowner approached us we didn't approach them so we know the landowner is willing and the site will be cleared in 12 months ready to go well and i think there's a different there's a different conversation rich with you guys don't like the property versus we haven't talked to the landowner at all that i'm aware of there's a there's a whole difference between we don't like where the property is located versus we think that another lot needs to be purchased and we've already engaged with the landowner and here's what they're willing to offer so that's a whole different conversation then because we put i don't want to use the word like in this scenario julie because that's not the issue here we're talking about traffic impact and safety here and i get it and i get it but once again that's going to be an issue regardless of where we put the school we have safety issues with blackridge we have safety issues at desert sky like just the reality is how many people we have and how many kids we're putting in a school site that's going to happen regardless do you know is there a specific location on this site that that now is kind of settled on is it further east or further west on this piece of property i was briefly shown at one site where they were looking at that i don't have context to that more something that i can share with you um i assume further further east is better for you based on utilities and it was a closer east position than the original one yes um my recollection of when it was shown to me was it actually bought it up to the mountain view portal so it was the annexation plant is not bought now before so again i don't have context to this right here i don't see the map right here here joanne this is the annexation area right mountain is here so even if it's here you're still 40 acres away okay but don't they also own so they're asking to annex the one piece but they also own the piece that it's church houses yes that's correct so but the but the school is part of the annexation is that other piece not already been part of the city because how do you listen yes that's a search owner right they don't hit half on one and half on the other if they don't they could that's what they didn't buy that from what's what's their name the church owns it and the church is selling it to the school district church owns this church but is the school district buying that whole huge parcel are they just buying a school site no they're 50 acres for the school and i don't know i have not seen i have not seen in uh this area where those could be well if that's the case they'll track them they would be on the annexation who's sharing that map where are you sure oh maybe it's i have a thing back here julie oh is it against mountain new corridor julie is muted julie unmute yourself the case i was shown in a small meeting and put it right here because they remember it as like geographically now did you care about the annexation well for this for this reason they have to know they want to shoot units over there that's why the church is looking no but the school district's involved in the annexation so maybe it's maybe it's one acre of the annexation that's part of the plan that's all would have to be part of the request it wouldn't have to be but don't you guys have legislative oversight in that nba that you don't have to transfer density into that annex person if they if it's included in the dap then we have legislative authority on what goes there because you're you're approximately 40 acres down a few questions this is about 40 acres square yeah so if they got 50 they're going to have 10. yeah so and if it was a year coming off then it would put us to bed here and it's in itself a mountain view it's less of an issue but i remember when i saw it and thought they've already been told because they asked us more remember when i said they asked us to look at the transportation why we said no so they already know that that road is coming through here right what do you call it mid valley road yeah they already know that's coming through here so they they already know that some of this is going to be road yeah so maybe when you said it was down here a little bit maybe that's your 58 i don't know i haven't seen a site yeah i mean that i i would feel a lot better about that but i just wish they would actually tell us what we don't know what are we doing i don't know i don't know i didn't ask for a concept from the national facilities team yesterday and they said no i'm not really sure that we have to show it on yeah it's a big secret even though it impacts you incredibly if it falls on the south side of the mountain you uh excuse me the mid valley road there's no tie in there anyway that road goes straight through no tying all the way to the mountain court right so you wouldn't have any time from that from the neighborhood for the north anyway yeah that's true so how would they well mid-by would tie in they would get down the south end of that there isn't any time that goes straight for what for the road the road until you get the mountain new court yeah it's an expressway to get what currently and already exists in the south part of eagle mountain and the future growth of that that is going to take a strain on most of that that's why we're planning for it to be 50 by 60 miles an hour through that and again i don't when i saw a brief visual it didn't have all of the roads in the schematics i just the thought that went through my head was it was closer to mountain view before more than i had anticipated is that your understanding too julie yeah i'm trying sorry guys i my internet is wonky i'm trying to find uh the capital planning agenda that has all the information on it and see if i can pull up the map for you just give me a minute do you actually have a map that has it's sitting on a map yeah i did one point let me see if i can find it and just for clarity julie sits on the capital planning committee that is not the committee that i sit on so that's the line and understand i get a briefly monthly update i don't know why we're arguing they're already breaking ground in five minutes for it my dream about it was five minutes ago it happened yeah according to certain people it's already filmed yeah we've just been unwilling to move into it that's yeah but when we're sitting here i am very curious of this other piece of property that you guys think would be a good picture where it is there's a couple of places that are possibilities well they could be there's four school the one there's a wadsworth property that chris identified that might be a little bit of the wildflower in the mountains are they flat or are there no there are no more uh okay so i have the map can you guys i don't know how to share it with you can you just click on share screen and it'll show up not allowing multiple people there now she can change now you should be able to julie hold on okay now i gotta figure out which unpin him that pin is only for this screen i know but i want people to be able to share now is it working julie um it kind of is let's see if it works well we don't see anything so sorry it's like making me do a whole thing about oh shoot she's allergic to utah it's because my computer's locked down with work and it's a lot like making me go through like a whole zoom crap let me see if i can share it with joylin and then you guys can see it hold on a second yeah it's uh yes get out of the office yeah but get on office that's why you oh sorry look this one i didn't even see that one yeah i put that one up special just for you rich i'll change it over next time we'll put it on your special desk table i want this set up for me every type oh no they actually cleaned all that up well well i've got two the egg bites in the freezer if you i want this one okay that's a monetary amount i like that not by cutting down here what's 50 Julie, can you send like a screenshot of it or something and one of us can pull it up?

I just emailed it to Joy Lynn. OK. So she should have the map and then she should be able to share it in the group so that you guys. Sorry, my work computer is not letting me share with the Zoom.

Julie, why are you looking that up? I just want to make sure I'm clear on this. We're not trying to prevent the high school from being built. I know it's just this is honestly like I just had such a shit show of ridiculous stuff in the last months about this high school.

It feels like one more. I get it, Rich. I get everything you're saying. I don't like where the high school site is either.

And I get all the safety concerns. I just have a lot of frustration. Do you want to join the Zoom? I can make you feel the shared.

Join the Zoom and share yours. I mean, what's your email address? Yeah, I said, there's no room. She just needs to join them and I'll make her co-host so she can share.

So you can share, you can set in the settings that anyone can share, not just call them. Yeah, she did that already. She went down to the, the side here. So, do you have the Zoom, right, Joilin?

So you guys are in the map, right? Joilin got it? Almost. South of the road.

Well, that's the thing. If it was down there, it's up at Mountain View. It's less of an impact. We're finally going to get to have convention, you guys, because it's close enough to a freeway.

And it'll be big enough. Of all the places, we have the least amount of impact. So are you guys able to see the map? Not yet.

We're getting there. Okay. Joilin. That's what I'm doing.

No, I didn't mute her. I just pinned her. I unmuted myself. Don't want to do it from her.

There you go. It is the piece I was just trying to point to. So it does go into the annexation slightly. And it is centered between the two roads.

My understanding is that the building will be oriented up here. Our road. No, the district. This is the district map.

I don't know where they got this information. Facing which direction? The school will be facing southwest. So it would be in here and then fields.

I know fields were definitely bordering the mountain view and that the access would be. It looks like the light blue line is probably the new valley. Oh, thank you. Yeah, that's not the purple one.

That's just where they're showing them out either. That's what the church is showing when they're playing, I guess. I guess. That concept.

And that blue road, again. So even though it says high school in purple there, it's the white one? Yes, it's the white line. This was a previous one and one over here was previous and this is.

I could come Steve to the back when they said, well, you change your transportation line. He said no. They may have shifted it down to this site. I like the snow business.

Let's start doing that one. No? Yeah. So hopefully this site means most of the traffic is accessing off of Mountain View, which should alleviate the traffic in your neighborhoods other than students that are already living in your neighborhoods.

Which is 50% of the population of Eagle Mountain and most of the kids that will go to that high school. No. Well, the ranches and the ranches and... I guess we're going to go to the high school.

What we could do is add traffic calming measures throughout Porter's Crossings. Most of the attendees of this school will be this way south. In homes that aren't built yet? What?

In homes that aren't built yet? Because we make up half the population of Westlake. Not half the population. We make up a lot of the population of Westlake now, don't we?

We bring in one elementary school. Two? Two. Not all of Brookhaven comes to...

It's 40% of Brookhaven and all of Silver Lake. So you're bringing in, and those would be the ones that would most likely... But how many high school kids at Westlake come from Silver Lake? That's what they're saying.

It's... They said... Yes, Silver Lake and 40% of Brookhaven. But it'll split...

It'll split to bring more of the... It'll bring more. Yeah, it'll bring further west. Yeah, because I thought this was supposed to be healthy.

It's going to bring some Cedar Bollies. All right. Either way, I'm just saying we would be fooling ourselves if we didn't... There will be some impact through those neighborhoods.

There's going to be... Yeah. And I think, you know, if you built the high school in the north end, you're going to have some impact just in different neighborhoods. People do tend to drive the path of least resistance.

Well, I'll tell you, the areas that we talked about, just so you know, there were three areas that we talked about. There's the mine that Julie brought up. Chris and I and Jared talked about the possibility of engaging with Wadsworth with the south, excuse me, the northwest corner of Mountain View Corridor and SR-73, and maybe even the possibility of back in the canyon to the west of Wildflower, which would have access points on major roads to get back in there that you would be impacting neighborhoods with. And I think we definitely need to keep all of those locations in mind because as soon as we get one high school started, we'll go back to 80 and we start on a second.

I think this high school... I think it's got to be closer to Cedar Valley. I don't think it's got to be closer to Firefly. Yeah.

That's the next impact. But also remember, I mean, I just attended a meeting at a junior high last night with another 1,200 homes coming in. That's 2,100. That's your run-up against the mountain there.

The simple property. I mean, you're going to help. I mean, everywhere. Everybody keeps saying that's happening.

It's not happening. It's not happening yet. Chris is like over my dead body. I was in the main area.

Yeah, it hasn't been approved. It's not happening. It hasn't been approved. Yeah.

That's a negotiation. But they'll be breaking ground in the spring for land that's not annexed. You're such a troublemaker today. You're a little bit contentious today.

Chris ate all my M&M's, you guys. He hasn't gotten to his $50. You were a little late. It was pretty good.

Does this site alleviate... There's no question. Like Rich said, it's the least of the worst. You know what I mean?

But we need a school... And Julie's right. The problem is aggravated by the number of kids that have to go to these schools. Because when you put almost double the amount of kids in a school, it just brings more traffic to it.

Traffic studies are done for the number of people that the school is built for. Hey, Julie, and maybe, Julie, you know, is this school being built for the typical 1,700 to 2,200 capacity? It is being built. Like the square footage is going to be roughly the same.

The goal is that at opening, roughly every high school, Westlake, Cedar Valley, and the new would be around 2,100 kids. Okay. Yeah, an actual cafeteria, that'd be nice. I will say it's also fascinating.

I'm down in Washington County right now, and I went and toured two of their high schools because they've been doing some interesting stuff with construction just to get some ideas from them. Their typical high school, what they build for, is 1,500. So part of it is it's hard to do comparables when other areas are not building schools to house the number of kids we are. Yeah.

And that absolutely impacts the traffic flow. And, Rich, I'm sorry that I'm, like, biting your head off about this. Oh, I can handle it. By the way.

I don't have a problem about, you know, conversations. I mean, we've talked about the traffic issues. We've talked about it, but at the same time, we've never held, like, an official meeting or to the point where you guys have said, hey, we've engaged the landowner. So I don't have a problem.

And I think for the next high school, like, one of the first things I want to do is sit down and have a very long, like, two-hour come-to-Jesus conversation about where do you guys, based on the development of the city, where do you guys think that we need to buy land for high schools and middles? We did originally buy the property where the middle school is going for a high school and a middle, but we don't have enough acreage right now with the gulch running through it to make that feasible. So we can probably do an elementary, but not a high school like we had intended. So now we've got to look at other options for where we're going to place the next Eagle Mountain Middle or the ex-Eagle Mountain High School.

And I think that definitely is something we need to have a conversation about. It's just hard at this point. Like, I get it. It's not a done deal 100%, but we've invested millions in the architecture.

For me to go back to the board and say, we want to screw it over, I mean, people are already, like, it's going to be a hard enough of an ask to try and get the lease revenue bond done. We're millions in architecture? Yeah, we've set aside about 8 million. It's generally a percentage of what the build is going to cost, and we're about 8 million in, I believe.

And this isn't a complaint about board members. This is a complaint about the process. And I'm not taking it as, like, a personal attack at all. I just, we've had so many problems with this site, which I know you guys are right.

Like, some people, right, some board members are saying we're good to go, everything's fine and peachy keen. And everything, I feel like, on our side, at least where Joy Lynn and I sit, has been a fight. And I think it's still going to be a fight to get the funding, even if we get the legislation through. They may choose not to fund this high school out of spite.

I just... We appreciate that, Julian. The reality is the reason that we haven't been having this fight is because there was a bigger fight to have first. Right.

And I think we haven't been engaged in that same fight, but it doesn't mean that this isn't one that needs to be discussed. Because at the end of all of this, how it impacts the community that it's in, the students that are going to, that has to always be part of the conversation up front. Right. Not just after the, oh, man, I wish we would have done this differently.

Because we have a lot of those in Eagle Mountain and Saratoga Springs, where we're saying, man, I wish we would have done this differently. Or why in the world did we do this? This has such a negative impact on traffic or safety for the kids going to and from. Because initially we thought, you know, it's going to be a bus school.

Well, then the buses are gone. And that created a very different environment that didn't exist initially because we didn't think about all the possibilities of that. I just, I love that you're saying, let's sit down and have a two-hour conversation. I think moving forward, no question.

I think that's the best way to do things between the school district and the cities so that we're trying to, right, before we've done those things and we can help you with some of those decisions and show, you know, this is the future plan of how this road is going to be so that we don't put schools on a road that's going to be a major collector arterial road. Well, and we can do NDAs if needed, too. Like, if it's, because we do that all the time with RDA type stuff. There's a big difference between us talking to the board and talking to the staff with current Alpine School District.

True. Because we do sit down once or twice a year with senior staff at Alpine and the board. And we go through all of our growth projection plans and where all the growth is coming. And then they buy a junior high site on Redwood Road with a canal running right in the middle of it.

That site makes no sense. Well, I think there has to be a change that we make on, you know, from Joy Lynn and I's perspective when we've got a new board and new staff coming in. And I think doing some of this work ahead of time, like, I would say we've got a year. We've got a year between, you know, the election and a new board coming in.

Let's use that year well. And I think that we should sit down and schedule a conversation and say, okay, looking at your guys' master plan for the city over the next 40 years, where are the sites? What connections do you have with developers? Let's start the conversations.

Because we all know that it's not just this school, right? We've got to do an elementary to offset Desert Sky. We've got another high school we've got to figure out. So let's sit down and figure some of that out.

Obviously, the new board's going to have to make a call about where they purchase property and who they hire. But let's do some of the legwork now. And I would say we need to do the same thing with Saratoga. Like, let's figure out.

I don't think we can solve this issue and this school. I just, that's my perspective. I'm willing to be proven wrong. I feel like we've tried to offset the traffic as much as we can with Mountain View Peace and by shifting it further south.

That's there, Julie. I think that's helpful to the conversation. One of the problems is that we haven't been part of that conversation. And so we're left to make assumption because we're looking at 162 acres that butts up against a neighborhood that's already greatly impacted by schools.

And frankly, had we had this conversation in front, we're probably not even having this conversation. And just for perspective, I found out this location, I mean November meeting. Months ago when we looked at the property and purchasing it, it was a very different location. And I did try when we first had this on our agenda to reach out to Saratoga Springs where I represent.

And I do think that as we move forward, we have an issue of we have built a lot of schools in the wrong locations. And we need to solve that going forward because all it creates is frustration and animosity between city officials, parents, students, staff, community. And I think we can work to do that better. I can't reach out on this one.

I will reach out even better on the next one. I have a learning curve. This is a question for both of you with the creation of new school district. Does the board have the ability to create kind of their own guidelines, legislative processes, et cetera?

Or is that dictated by the state and you basically, it's just kind of a template that you adopt and away you go? We create policies and we have flexibility and we could create a policy surrounding land purchase of a school. I would be very interested in being part of that conversation. Yeah, we could create a policy.

We could sit down and come up with something that would be very good about requiring the entities to work together for the best safe solution, not just land acquisition. Right, because sometimes you guys buy the site that's cheaper, which I get, but it's not cheaper overall for the taxpayers because lights have to be put in, safe routes to school, and we've got to do that, right? And so when we can lay all of that out and compare costs, I think it's helpful. Again, when we created that policy or procedure, it would be binding on the district if there was disagreements.

I can't write policy or procedure that... No, no, the reality is that that gives the Saratoga Springs City Council, Eagle Mountain City Council the opportunity to sit down and say, okay, let's put in our code some guiding principles for when developments are done that we're going to help identify by MBA or whatever, that this is a probable location, bring the school district in. How do you feel? How do you feel about this?

Things that we can do to mitigate the cost, because we understand that part of it, but also safe routes, putting into place that's the best service area for that area that will be a long-term service area, not, you know, that we tend to have at the very end. Yeah. I don't want to be in the position of prior priors where more skills just magically appear in cities. I want to be a partner and I want to work because the infrastructure and the transportation in keeping students safe is key.

I'm wondering what state code, whether it's an MBA or something like that, if we can mandate to a developer this school site and their MBA? I don't know if it can. An MBA is a private contract. You can put whatever you want in the MBA.

It's whatever both parties will agree. We can't bind the school district to anything in an MBA. No, no. We're talking about a contractor.

Yeah, but if you're saying, oh, we're going to bind the developer to this is going to be a school site in the MBA, I mean, we have that. That could happen. In the harmony MBA, for example, we have like, these are school sites. Guess what?

School district doesn't want them. Again, I think that coordination. That's kind of what, yeah. So can we bind the contractor?

Sure. But the Marcus's point, that may not be amenable to the school, but that's why we need to have them part of that conversation up front and say, does this meet your qualifications for topography? We know that's an issue, right? That's something that they can, they can weigh in on those things.

But yeah, I think having the conversations that we have not been having helps to have a better outcome. We were meeting with the board and talking about those kinds of issues. And then we got the school on the freeway and we, you know, so we were having those conversations and they said they wanted to be a part of it, but it just didn't. I just don't feel like it's being communicated to the board.

They can create a policy that kind of gives the guidance. Agreed, because then it's not a pinky problem. That's right. And again, trying to negotiate that and it's not a problem specific to your community or Saratoga Springs community.

I sat in a meeting with Lehigh community with frustration, so again, I think moving forward, my intent is to be a better partner. I made baby steps in being a better partner with my city on this one. Did I hit it out of the park? Absolutely not.

Are there lots of steps to be taken and lots of procedures that could be done? And I like the idea of looking at a procedure of this is what we do and this is how we work together. So, JoLynn, even in a capital planning discussion, as this school site has shifted three times, it would be great to have that conversation with the city as you're shifting that, right? Because this is the third site, first time I'm seeing it, and I've asked staff, have we seen any site at all?

No. Because knowing that's there, we probably would have alleviated this conversation. If I wouldn't even have this conversation. Right, but also the fact that we can see this property from Eagle Mountain without binoculars.

I didn't even throw a lock out of that. I didn't throw a lock out of that. 100%. So it's like you put a high school on our border and we talk to Saratoga, but we don't talk to Eagle Mountain.

Saratoga doesn't even feel like they got enough information. So again, we just need to improve that. Improving that, I think we can do. Again, I just have very recently seen this shift.

A couple of things I do like about this is there are multiple roads that appear to be coming in from lots of different access points. So we're not completely chokeholding one neighborhood. I think that's good because we've got access points. The other thing for you guys to be aware of, I don't know if you're seeing this on the map, but the other thing for you guys to be aware of is how the buses are going to be routed here.

So the buses are not competing with students and parents for parking. Please for the love, put the buses on one side of the school and the opposite side make the parents come. I mean, when I'm saying the buses are going to swing behind kind of where the fields are. So another concern about looking at this and we have to have single entries to meet all the new safety bills.

So we have to navigate. But there's a different aspects of parking lots, single entries to building, to building. So you don't want it gets very important here. Yeah.

First of all, there's a road right here. That's not even showing up. Right. That's what I was trying to look for.

And if this is freeway with frontage roads, I don't know where the interchanges are going to be. Yeah. I mean, you can't have an interchange here with flyovers if this is school property. Yeah.

Right? So this would have to be get off here and take frontage roads to here. I don't think the purple one at Mid Valley. I think the blue one is.

No. Yes. I'm talking about Mountain View corridor. Mountain View corridor is freeway until you get to Grandview.

So I don't know. So you're talking about a normal faster, basically. Well, or is this road just going under or over and there's no interchange at all right here? Yeah.

And you have to interchange here, take the frontage road. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Yeah.

I mean, that's down the road quite a bit. Right? But that's. It's going to happen.

If I could offer. Have that conversation with UDOT well in advance. Yes. Because I live off Bangor Highway.

Okay. And there's a Columbia Elementary School about 7800 south. And when they put in the interchange there after being what Bangor used to be. Yeah.

There's a single access there and you, and it's impossible to get in and out. So the access. We do have the. I mean, you've got these two frontage roads.

It's just a matter of where you get off of Mountain View to access this because you're not going to have. This might be restrictive because of this property to have enough room for those interchanges to happen. Yeah. That's the important part of the conversation where we have.

And I will make sure that we. Where we know we have a future, whatever the road's going to be. If the school district isn't involved in those conversations, you could blindly build something there to Cliff's point. And I will clarify that we have had this conversation with the job.

Is Mountain View already planning on the frontage roads all the way? It looks like they're on that map. We've already built. So the yellow is already built.

The yellow on the east is built. Yeah. And then the, the, the, the corridor preservation is already there. So you'll still have frontage roads.

That's, that's helpful. Double frontage roads, freeway. You know, that's 30 years from now. But the, the right of way is planned for it.

Yeah. Um, you know, the next phase is going to be the other front road. Okay. And that'll be, you know, a light, controlled intersection on the general freeway that comes through us.

Yeah. It's just, frankly, that purple road doesn't exist today. This one. Well, no, the one that goes east by.

Yeah. That purple road's not even there. Right. This one is.

None of the roads. That is, yes. None of the roads west. You've worked my way to the school, so.

Yeah. That one is. But the purple road that comes through this neighborhood. Everything that's west of Mountain View Corridor does not exist.

Right. Yeah. Well, and that purple road east of Mountain View is not better. Well, and also just for context for both Joylyn and Julie, that blue line, that's not, that's not the correct pathway for that.

And it is a, probably a 60 mile an hour that's not going to have connections to it. That will have some sort of a continuous intersection on Mountain View Corridor. Yeah. So.

That's what I'm saying, Rich. That would. Yep. Wherever that one sits, and it should, it's probably Halverson, just a matter of how you get to Halverson.

That's going to be, that's going to be continuous flow. Yeah. All ramps off ramps. Yep.

Not signalized. I mean, it'll, frankly, probably be signalized. To start with, right? Yeah.

With a long-term plan. Long-term plan. That should be continuous flow. Yeah, we don't want that stacking because that lands everybody to start using your streets to get out of there.

Right. That's my concern, is kids getting off of that, we're going to get stacked. So do you think a majority of your city center traffic would take this access to Mountain View? 60 miles an hour is likely.

And not, and not, not going away? Not 73 freeway out. Because the problem is you've got to go, you've got to go west, then you've got to go north, and then SR 73 doesn't go straight across. It comes back down a little bit.

And then back down. So, will people use that? Sure. They're going to use every single one of those.

Eagle Mountain Boulevard. They'll use that 73 until this comes in. Well, we know the Firefly is going to use SR 73 for sure. Yeah.

That's their, that's their way out. Yeah. And when I go, I live in city center. When I go north to Salt Lake, I go out on SR 73.

But when I'm. She's not coming across. She's right by the roundabout. Yeah.

I'm not going to come, come all the way. And so when we get our Port Road in, I'll just hop on that. I, I'll take the mid valley of the temple, but that'd be the one time I'd take it. You'd take that.

Yeah. Cause it just takes me, it drives me back instead of forward. Yeah. I'm hoping too, at this location that we're capitalizing more on bigger roads than neighborhood roads.

I said bigger, not bigger, but not. Yeah. I think, I think probably the biggest concern is still really Parkway. Right.

Yeah. It's still going to. I would say. That's elementary right there.

Correct. If there's going to be any connection out there, honestly, I think we probably want to come up the one coming east, not Golden Eagle, the ones for the north. So that it isn't a straightaway that requires a stop, turn and then come over to it. Any straightaway is going to increase the problem that already exists on Woodhig and Silk Creek.

They're not driving 35 on those roads. They're driving 55. Well, nobody knows how to drive 35 out there. That's right.

Yeah. What's the truth? Yeah. That roundabout, man, it's like a challenge.

It's like, uh, they're in an actual race car. They just kind of use the circle as like the bumper. We should just drive it red. They kind of hit that as they come around.

Cause I'm not kidding it. There is no yield on it. I'm waiting for checkered flags. There you go.

Well, thanks for, uh, coming over and discussing this with us. I don't know. I apologize on the lack of communication. I will commit to doing better.

Tori Lynn, thank you for having us. I think we really need to hear that we're really grateful for the partnership. And we understand that there is tradition of surprising communities with schools. It's like a gender reveal part.

I'm going to tell you if there's anything that the last year has shown all of us is that when we work together, we get a much better outcome. I think the cities have learned that the school district board members who are working with the communities for those outcomes. Look what we accomplished in a year. And it's pretty extraordinary that we've been able to do this.

And I hope that this is the way we want to go forward with the new school district. And I mean, I know the cities are aligned in doing this from now on. We accomplish way more when we point in the same direction. And I'll do the future headaches.

Yes. So thank you for what you guys are doing for us. If we haven't said it, we appreciate our representatives on board. And if you, Julie, Joy Lynn, if you can ask your facilities team to work closely with us, especially with Saratoga Springs on this, but with us on transportation, for sure.

Yes, I will reiterate that. I know Frank Pulley pretty well, and I like him a lot. We're good friends, but he needs the direction to be, you know, to say, yes, work with them instead of keep everything internal and then wait until the end and work with us. For sure.

Have your people talk to you now. Yeah. That will be top priority for me to confirm this. I also don't want this to be the end of the discussion.

Can we plan to schedule a meeting in March, one with Saratoga, one with Eagle Mountain? I mean, I feel like we've got to kind of get through the ledge session. But can we plan to put something on the calendar in March for each city individually and talk about let's come in with a, hey, here's the master plan for the city. We see this as being the sites that we think are best for schools so that we can also develop a long-term land and make, you know, program on our side.

So that would be super helpful, I think, just to kind of make sure that we take from this meeting something that I think is going to be productive and long-term. Julie, are you talking about the Alpine School District purchasing property for the future or preparing for the next school district to do that? I mean, talking about the next school district, I don't know that we have cash to buy any additional properties besides that one that we're trying to resolve to offset desert sky. But I think for us to have a long-term plan as to, hey, this is where Tuguayo is coming.

This is where, you know, we're going to see a wildflower grow and this is where we think you guys are going to need schools. I think for us to have a clear path and plan and then whatever connections you guys have with landowners for us to start making those connections and purchasing property faster. Okay. It's a great idea.

We'll get on that. Okay. Thanks for joining us, Julie. Yep.

Thank you. Thanks for coming and joining us. Julie has hit your capital election. Did you employ her?

No. Just taking some of the chaps. Okay. Thanks for coming, Chris.

Thank you. - I'm gonna say George after the election. - Do you have flavor? Just take some of the chaps, see these trash.

- Okay, all right. - Thanks for coming, Chris. - Thanks for coming, see you. - I didn't get a pass.

Oh, now. No, I mean, you don't have to. - You're a man hug. - Yes, we have a hand hug.

- She says they get a pass. - I'm fast, I'm fast. - There's such like a boys club over here. I'm like, Chris.

You know, Rich, let me up today. - Melissa. - I never let you know. - Who do you want pinned down?

- No, you don't. - The camera again? - Steve or whoever. Who's talking next?

Probably Cliff. Cliff's gonna share his really tiny screen. So we're gonna make it as big as possible. - Actually, I'm gonna give you a handout.

If you talk about my thing, 'cause we're now up to the last hour, and so we had scheduled both mine and the broader open discussion for you. So really, it's up to you what you want to do. But I do have a handout of the priorities list for you. I want to make a comment on that, because we kind of mentioned this yesterday, where the objectives list and the legislative priorities list needs to be married.

But how do we accomplish that? - Well, it started off married, but then we just keep adding stuff to it every day. I mean, well, we need to do this too. - At what point does the legislative priorities need to be moved to the objectives?

Maybe that's the question. - Well, no, but I think both of you guys are saying something important. What I'm hearing is originally they were, and we've drifted, but you want us to drift back so that they still are. - I mean, what's the part of a strategic plan if you have competing interests?

- I agree. What I'm saying is maybe when we're talking about our legislative priorities list, and it's our time of the meeting that we do that, we should pull up the list of this stuff. Yes, so first step, ask CLIP and staff to go evaluate what's on our legislative priorities list and try to kind of coordinate the-- - Are there some that are basically the same? - Yes, the overlap, figure out where the overlap is, and then say, here's the outliers, here's the ones that don't match with any of your strategic goals or objectives or any of that.

And then when we start from there on having the conversation at the meetings, we should all have a list of what we're looking at, and if it's not falling within that, we should say, is this something we need to add? Because we kind of willy-nilly put stuff on there, and it doesn't mean that it willy-nilly is bad, it's just maybe it needs to be a little bit more formal so that-- - I'm kind of wondering, also, because there's been a number of things that have changed this year that we didn't anticipate, like a focus where we have to maybe look at energy. If it wasn't a conversation before, perhaps it would be good for us to go back and re-evaluate our strategies so that it incorporates some of these things that now we're faced with that we need to incorporate into our-- - Yeah, that's part of the strategic goal, because we're looking at energy as part of that, and having robust infrastructure and the technology, and the duality of that, so that's absolutely part of the strategic goal of that. - Yeah, it's just something that's come to the forefront of the ground we need to focus on.

- We can do that on the ability, that would probably change that, right? - That's the objective. - And there are some nuances that will kind of give things a little new flavor, a little new look, too, like as we're implementing OpenGov, is that what it's called? - Yeah, yeah.

- And also, by-- Steve Kirkman, if I'm wrong, I think by the end of the year, we should have project management as well. - We're definitely pushing for that. - Okay, so that's the-- Yeah, so when we have those in place, it's gonna take a little bit of a ramp up time, but-- - Is that something that works with our existing software, or these all just standards? - We're having some demo meetings with a few companies, so Natalie's kind of narrowed it down to three, I think, or five top companies.

One of them, we know for sure, does connect with OpenGov. - Is there a reason we wouldn't want to do that? - Only if that software specifically we just was just about-- - It depends what the focus is. So the project management software, I mean, let me address this a little bit.

If you look on the far right, what I've tried to do when you pick, when the council has added things to the priorities list, I've tried to identify if they fall within one of the strategic goals, or the six strategic goals, and just indicated that on there. - But a lot of the kind of the Rich's comments, I think the way I've seen this is, yes, we have the strategic goals and the actual action, or objectives and actions. Largely, we're staff generated and then vetted by you guys last January, right? Where this is, this is the stuff that you've initiated for the most part, and then some of it is more tasks than it is projects, or more, so it's more, sometimes it's just, you have an interest in getting something done, and it might not actually be part of the broader strategic goal in terms of your thinking, but you want it done.

And so we've added it. And so that's why the two don't completely mesh. And what I'm hoping to do with the project management software, when we get it up, is to be able to marry those two, or integrate them in a way that I can track them and then we can help, you know, because, you know, for example, if you scroll in or move in a couple of pages on here, you'll see that planning's got a lot. If you look at the planning on the strategic plan, they've got a lot, right?

And how do we, how do we schedule those in a way that they can manage the workload? - Well, maybe some of it, maybe some of it should be planned, maybe some of it could be handled in another department, frankly, you know? - Well-- - I think one of the things, too, is when you're looking at even your project management, if we're giving instruction in a legislative list of things, and it doesn't fit into the strategic values, then the question should be, should it? And we feel strongly about it, why doesn't it, right?

And how do we adjust to make sure that these are things that are being taken care of under those strategic values that we've already created, right? - Well, like, some of it, though, is just housekeeping. Like, Jared, last meeting doesn't fit under any of this, but it's like, oh, we've got to fix our code because this doesn't agree with that. - Yeah, but it does fit within the six things.

Like, it may not fit within a certain department yet, but it definitely fits within our six strategic goals. - Well, it should fit within the, you know, keeping our code sound and consistent and up-to-date and up-to-date with current laws and et cetera, which I know that that's something that Marcus has been taking on with some of the planning department where it applies there, but I would assume that's got to fit under one of our strategic goals. - Right, and a lot of that comes back to just, like, managing expectations, and I know that's where a lot of the confusion has come from in the past is not having project management. It's always kind of feels like a scramble to even figure out where we are.

- I think Jared kind of brought this up in the last meeting when he asked the question, who's going to be responsible for this, and what's the talent train? - Correct. - Right, that's an important part of maybe the project management software's going to be that, where you and the, right now, Steve and when Ben gets here, are going to say, okay, just likely because we know this department is already overburdened with these things, perhaps we're going to have to pull in some people from somewhere else, or that's not feasible. It needs to be hired out.

- Yeah, exactly. Yeah, so, yeah, with that, it's just more automatic. It's more, I don't know if organic's the right word, but it's built in so that as, you know, say a project has discovery in its process that can be added into it live, right, and then that automatically we can, you know, anytime we want, we can pull a report that says, okay, we thought we only needed these resources. Now we know we need, you know, these other resources, and we can zero it in on us better, and then we can make those adaptations, or adjust a priority, or whatever the case may be.

So we, instead of this sort of scrambly kind of a feel to it. So, Cliff, you look like you're kind of chomping the bed here. - No, I, yes and no, but I think the challenge is, again, distinguishing between kind of what is a longer-term thing, and what is kind of a housekeeping item, right, and how to track all those, because they come up a lot in meetings, and sometimes a staff member knows that that's theirs, and they'll just take it up, take it, and other times we say, well, sounds like you want it on the priorities list, so we tend on the priorities list, and in terms of, you know, where these things rest, and the responsibility, the way the legislative affairs director position is written, things like the master plans, or at least tracking all of those, all those fall under my job description, according to the code. And if I were, if I were crafting a name for the position, I know we're trying to get away from slashes, but in some ways, my position could be kind of a combination, could be strategic planning and legislative affairs, right?

There's, there's elements of both in, in, in the description. - A strategic plan is a legislative plan. - It is. - That's what it is.

- Yeah. - It might get set by the legislative body. Yep, it's implemented by staff, it's prioritized by the legislative body, it's amended and modified by the legislative body, so that's a no-brainer for me that that's just all in New York, certainly for me, at least for me, I don't know how much of, uh. - Well, certainly we've been looking for ways to kind of, uh, help, uh, stretch his legs a little anyway.

Uh, so there are definitely, um, possibilities there. - Yeah, the next, the next step I see for, where I'm going with this is, you know, we're, we're about to implement the mortgage assistance plan. Hopefully that becomes, kind of starts to run itself, you know, once we get it going, um, but it's taken up a lot of bandwidth, right? Preparing for this today has taken up a lot of bandwidth.

Um, but in terms of the normal ebb and flow of what I do, meeting with different department heads, and just kind of seeing where they are on things, and moving some things forward and back, and reassigning some of them, um, that's ongoing. The project management software, the implementing of that, that is going to be my next big effort, uh, and, and that's going to run up against, um, that's going to run up against the legislative session, but we're getting the policy, so that's going to help. And so my next big effort, um, in addition to following the, the legislature is, is trying to integrate all this better now, going forward, because it's been a learning process to figure out what works, and how the council wants it to work, and we're still evolving, evolving it, yeah. I really like what you did last year with the legislative session.

Amen. For me, it was really helpful. Maybe you just kept us surprised at what was going on. I mean, we were tracking and following some of that.

There were items that you brought to my attention that I was unaware of, and I was just really grateful to put your eyes on, and you were-- Even after this conversation with our legislators, well, if we can go way in advance, that enables us to make a telephone call and say, you need to watch this one. Yeah. Well, I want to look, I want to find these sandals, uh, you know, right? See if it's out there or things like that.

Yeah, I think that your experience on the Hill Cliff is really valuable. I think that that's an asset that you put in for us on our behalf last year. So I just want to trust gratitude for that and say that I have similar or higher expectations for this year. I'm going to say that.

Well, and I love how you weren't just tracking things. When you saw something where the city could step up and give a better idea, we did, and we used Marcus. And I think that puts us on the map more as a city that's interested in solutions, not just-- A leader and a leader. Yeah, so I appreciate that.

The last couple of years, that's really what I've learned, is just the impact that you can have through collaboration and through that communication. Because my first two years as a legislator, I'll just tell you, I was-- I'm still getting my feet up to me, I feel like. But I didn't have the expectation or understanding of what that lobbying aspect of it really is, where you go and advocate, right? But the last couple of years, I'm starting to find my footing.

And I find it to be hyper-valuable because of the results that you've been getting in. It's been a collaborative effort. Every one of us has engaged more fully on that level. Well, it's been collaborative on the staff level, too.

Vince's predecessor, Chris, was-- he would send me stuff when we hear stuff. Recorder some people were sending me stuff. It was a matter of, we're all tracking this, and things that I saw that were city-oriented, I'd send out into the departments where they seemed to fit. And Brad and I had some extensive discussions over the-- I'm trying to think what the bill was called, but it was about the overhead sprinkler, right?

It seemed innocuous at first. I was like, wait a minute. There's an impact on us, because we're not going to put sprinklers in our, you know, in every trail area. Yeah, they're making you get rid of anything that's great, right?

Yeah. He wanted to listen. Oh. That's what he meant.

Yeah. He was on there a minute ago. He was on his phone. He's on his phone.

He is on his phone. Yeah. Well, if you want to talk to him. Yeah.

That's what I want to make sure. Yeah. Sorry, I misunderstood what you did. And I don't know if, I don't know if Jared's watching or listening, but if he's watching, I'm here.

He better just be listening. He's trying. But just a note that we are just a reminder, we are hiring for a management policy analyst to specifically help Cliff with the legislative side, the strategic planning side, and whatever else that we can do on the master planning side, so yeah. And then, you know, when we get this project management, one of the things I have been saying from the beginning is it's all fine and well to buy the product, but I think we should also buy the training that goes with it and get somebody, just like we did with OpenGov, help get somebody to get it set up, because until we get people to actually change the behavior.

Yep. It doesn't matter. If it takes a second here to input all of the information, you end up not utilizing the software. I agree.

I think there needs to be that up front help, get all in place, get the training going, so we're spending your time doing that instead of doing what we need you to be doing. And it's our expectation that once we have that in place too, that part of the accountability structure for staff to the city manager and city manager to the mayor and the council is that at some point, we should be in a place where we can just go in there and look and say, "Oh, you know, Cliff, you've got these projects and how are they?" Right? Well, we should be able to just look at it and say, "This is where it is." Then we're not bugging you with unnecessary telephone calls, frankly. Yeah.

So, I mean, that's the goal and it'll take us time to get there, but that's where we're headed. And then the only discussion that we should be having is, "Hey, not why is this moving forward, but we want to make sure you know that this is a higher priority than these other projects you're looking on." And then we're just talking about prioritization. Yeah. Or are there obstacles preventing you from moving forward- And if something shifts, like what happened with the data centers, that we need to now shift some focus, that enables us to be flexible and say, "Hey, perhaps we should shift down on this one.

Don't stop, but let's prioritize some of these things so that we can keep this moving forward." I think the more information that we are able to share collectively, the better we are going to be moving forward with policy, support of the things that you guys are doing, and then from Grant's point also, knowing who we need to talk to to give the support to the county and state levels as well. By the way, I wanted to pipe in there. Yes, I'm still here and watching, but I can't hear very good. That's because of your old age.

But where's the mic stuff? Can you hear us now, Jerry? I didn't hear you say I better be watching than I am. Well, she said you shouldn't be watching because you're driving.

Oh, okay. Well, see, I told you I couldn't hear very good. Wait, is there one already by you guys? Yeah.

Do you have another one over here? Yeah. No, it picks you up. It just picks you up.

Can you do this one? Yeah. Oh, just put a light to the top speakers. I think they can get you on either.

They can get them red. You know, so to your point about prioritization, because some of these things, you know, if you took these two lists, the one I shared yesterday and this one, I don't know the number. I don't count them, but I bet planning's got 30 to 40 items on that combined. And how do we find that?

Now, some of those things are just going to become part of the adjustments that you're making anyway, but some things may be, hey, you know what? I know you're working on this, but can you bring this up and get this done sooner because of a contingency or something's come up, right? I mean, those are the conversations we can have when we do combine the lists. And I do want to combine the list, but having a better expectation on timeframes would be helpful.

And I think that's one thing that we as a staff are going to have to learn because, you know, I'm like the private sector where they'll get a project and they'll schedule everybody's time. I assume you did. That's how I did the county premieres years ago. But we don't do that as much.

And maybe as we get better at managing the projects, we'll have a better feel for that. And then the other thing I want to be able to do is, you know, where we can bring artificial intelligence in to help us with some of this work, that will help. You know, I want to use artificial intelligence this legislative session to help with the bills. Saratoga, not Saratoga, Santa Clara did that.

And it found they saved them lots of hours. Saratoga said that they're using artificial intelligence to go through planning documents. And instead of taking six hours to go through what takes one, but they have such a workload that I just think we can be more productive if we learn how to implement this stuff better. Is there a way that we could task someone on staff to create a chat GPT where they upload all of our current code into it and then send us the link for it?

Once that's uploaded in there and it's... You can do whatever you want as long as you hire someone to do it, right? Well, it takes, it's copy and paste left, so... But we can, we can create it.

Someone showed us last week at UCMA where they create their own... They create a chat. That's what I'm talking about. But then if we have one...

Because I started doing it for myself. And if there's any updates to code, whoever has to update it to the code website, you can copy and paste that into the chat GPT. That's specifically the code master or whatever of our city. Because then when you're like, what's the setback for a yard in such and such?

The AI goes in and will come and tell you. I've done that, like, you know, for the chamber. I put all the bylaws and policies and procedures in there. And when the secretary needed to take a leave of absence, I was like, what does the board need to do to replace the secretary?

And they told us. Like, it gave us, like, exactly. So, like, it's a useful tool. And yes, it does take money, but it's copy and paste.

And maybe instead of putting, like, art or tourism up on the top of the list, we direct them to do the code piece so that we have that. I thought you were asking something slightly different. I think there's something that an additional step for the recorder's office needs to be the codification. Maybe.

Well, and that's the thing. It just needs to be done the first time. Because our code isn't one big document. So you can't copy and paste the whole thing on once you have to copy.

Unless you guys have it. The way it's on the website is. No, it could be dumped into one huge PDF. That's possible.

We could do the same thing with the state code, too. We can do it because it doesn't do our tables and graphs very well. Yeah. That's the way this is up.

But if we could create a PDF, all you have to do is attach it to that ChatGVT and you add it. The other thing you can do is you can say who different players are in your organization. And it can help answer questions. You guys could use it within staff to be like, here's the job descriptions of all our people.

Who should be working on this? And the mayor could go in there and he could ask. And it would say, Steve Monkford would be a great person to address this issue. It's that awesome.

So, anyway. I think we're starting to experiment a little bit with the different AIs. And so it's a learning process. I was astounded at some of the things I learned other cities were doing at our conference.

And there's some great ideas out there. Did you guys, did Matt Pierce, was Matt Pierce from Cottonwood Heights or Midville? I can't remember what city he was at. But he's their IT director.

And he did an AI presentation where he took the voices of all of the council member and mayor. Did you guys see that? Was that there at your thing? No.

So he took just our, like just the public recordings of the people, took their voices, put everything into AI, and had the mayor call and ask a staff member to do something with a check or something like that. Like he showed how AI could go wrong. That would be a really good training for us to get for our staff. Matt's done it all and he lives here in Eagle Mountain.

So like he probably could come. We did, we did ask our, our team. We had a brief discussion on Wednesday in our staff meeting with the carbon heads. Who's using AI already in their job.

And we had about half of us that piece their hands. It's mostly ChatGPT that they're using to review documents or help create some things that they may have to review. But they're using perplexity as well, which helps get answers online. I think, I think the possibility, I, like Cliff said, my mind was blown last week at this UCMA conference for some of the things Maricopa City in Arizona was doing that saved them so much time and effort.

And like you said, they upload documents, even if they're not uploaded, if they're available on the web, then ChatGPT or perplexity can find it and answer questions like that. In minutes rather than 20 hours of looking through the documents and putting out things. Well, and back to the, remember when we did the historical zones, we were talking about clarifying that so it didn't take as much staff time. That uploading all of our own code and saying that this is when it was the code and this is what it was like, it can go back and say, this was entitled at this date.

This is the existing residential code for this. That's what it would govern. It's going to take a little bit of time, but I swear to you guys, once it's all in there, it's going to be fantastic. I can see some benefits, especially when we're dealing with these massive, massive, massive development premiums.

Yes. And the ones that have like seven addendums. Like it's just. And it's not perfect.

You have to double check it because it makes mistakes. Yes. Yeah. But the double checking is way faster than trying to find it.

So the biggest, I guess the biggest question that, well, not, I have a question, but also I think the point is with our strategic plan. And the goals and objectives and everything. If there are things on there that you think you need to toss and replace, this is your document, right? We should do that.

If there are items on there that are lower priority than the legislative items, then you can combine those. You make sure you give direction to us that, hey, that's important. But this item is more important. Is there a way to get a list?

Sorry to interrupt. Oh, I just had a question. You know, Cliff gave us the objectives. Yeah.

Well, you said we could leave our stuff here. So I did and it's gone. So can I get another coffee? Maybe a move.

Maybe somebody moved there. I don't know. Let's see. There's an extra one over here by Gina.

Oh, you know what? I think for me it's a lot of reasons. There was one who stepped on the spot. You can put both of them in.

And I almost wonder. Okay, this was a question that I was going to ask. I love the depth in which you have this. And I love the depth in which you have this.

But I'm wondering if you have this. If there's a way to get like a truncated version where it's like what the item is and the phrase or sentence after it of what it describes. And then we at least know what's on the list because this is a lot to even like look at and digest. And if I had a list that just had the 25 main things on it, just the title of them, I could go and dig for more information if I wanted to.

But that I think would help us in our meetings a little bit more. I can do that. At 10:30 a night when you're like, okay, council, let's look at the legislative priorities list. I can barely read it at that time.

So anyway, there's a way to truncate it by the way. Yeah, I can get it. I'll find a way to get to you digitally and I'll try to get to it. I'll tell you the master list I use has, goes back meeting after meeting after meeting for I don't know how, a year and a half.

And I give you the updated one. So I don't like to send out the master list because I'm always updated. But I could do a... Just do a live document that we can look at.

Well, you can do that too. We're view only. Yeah, view only. It doesn't create a quorum.

Do a live document that we can all look at. It doesn't change. We can't change anything in there. But it gives us the ability when you make the update, you don't have to email it to us.

We all have that access to it. Yeah. One of the things I was going to say also, but I lost it. Oh, yeah.

Sorry. What was it? It was something along this line. What a wonderful council member, Donald Brennan.

Yeah. That's what it was. Something along the lines of, oh, I think it would be incredibly helpful to the council for you to create tabs below by department. So we know what we have done.

Because if we have 25, 30 legislative priorities that exist on a specific department, and we're pounding all the time to get these things done, and we don't even understand that we created this impact. Right. Even if you do that in this listing, you have broken it out that way. It's really hard to decipher it.

Yes. Yeah, I know. And it's the way I've got it. You could tab it by department that helps us to ingest it and go, okay.

Yeah. What's communication? What is planning? What is engineering?

Oh, we've got 112, 132 things. Right. And that enables us to go through and go, okay. Are these really priorities if we have 112?

Because they're probably not, right? Right. Is the priority nothing is. Yeah.

So it helps us to be better in our asks and our expectations if we understand what it is. Yeah. I'll figure out how to reorganize it. Because what I've done for simplicity is every meeting I just update the stuff and then I copy over the things that change.

I'll have to reorganize how I do it to get it to do it by tabs. And then we have to have a separate file every time. Is that going to make it a lot more difficult for you, Cliff? Maybe.

What are the tabs I have now? It's going to cause me to learn. When will you have your project management software? Yeah.

That's how fast we launch. So here's the thing. This just downloaded a CSV and just upload it into the project manager software. Yeah.

And I wouldn't bother doing what we're asking for in Excel. I would wait and use your software because the software is made to do those very things that we're talking about. We don't really have the software. That's what I had just asked.

I would say probably, but if we, if everything goes well in reviews, I bet by the end of the year we can decide who we want to do it for. Yes. So hopefully we'll check with, depends on the cost. We'll have to follow our procurement, procurement policies.

But at the end of the day, we want something that we think is going to work for the city and not necessarily just a little bit. So it's, it's fine. He can send that over to me and I can do it for myself to look at it that way. It's not that hard.

I agree. Literally you're going to filter it by department, copy and paste and put it into it. Right. It'll be a one time deal.

So I, I have a question and it's regarding the way that we do this. And it comes back to that comment that I made. A lot of times the issue part of, part of the issue is we don't want council members tasking staff individually. Right.

Yeah. And so part of our legislative priorities list has become just us having a simple task that we want staff to do. It's not a legislative priority, but we just need it done. And it's not right for me to go to Steve and say, you better do this today.

You know, or whatever it has to be. When the council speaks, we speak in a majority. Yeah. We don't speak individually.

And so how can we separate? Is there a way? Is it, or it doesn't even make sense to do this. I'm just thinking out loud to separate it so that we have this like task section.

That's just to do simple things and then actual priorities. And then the higher levels. Yeah. I think there is, it's just a matter of how we list it.

And, and, but you know, if you have an executive function that, that you have a mayor, a city manager that ultimately those directions need to go through. Yep. Um, a lot of the tests are going to have a timeframe. Don't you think?

Yeah. Most of them. The, the, the council talks about that on the, during the meeting, whatever, is that we, by motion, ask for the mayor and the city manager to assign this task by this date. And then just let us know, either whether it's by text or email, who it is it's responsible for.

So that when we get back to the cliff in our next meeting or whatever the timeframe is, this task has been taken care of. Yeah. And then the big ideas, cause we do have big ideas too. Don't get me wrong.

Yeah. And those would actually. Yeah. And I, and I think the, and I think the fair question is when we, when you assigned them out is for us, when we, when we pass them on to staff is to say, what is your capacity to do this?

And what's the realistic kind? And, and, and I think we're professional enough to recognize that some things need to be done now. And some things, you know, it may interrupt other things. And so we have to have that conversation with you and say, we can do this, but now we're going to bump something else.

Yeah. Or we need some additional resources. I was just going to say that. Yes.

That's the part of the conversation. A lot of times I think that's being missed. We say this needs to be done. And I think that's interpreted as I've got to stop what I'm doing.

And I've got to do this because my plates are be full. And I have the mayor and I have talked about this. I've talked with this about the Donna and Melissa and Jared and Brett. And what we want you to understand is the expectation is that if the capacity is already reached and you cannot do this because of that, or we don't know how to do it.

Also an important aspect of it. We need the trust and the, for you to also share with us, we are going to need additional resources. Maybe it's not an employee. Maybe it's a service that provides us to your point with the project management.

We probably don't have people who have the time to do that. So I'm glad that you said up front, we're going to need implementation and training portion of this as well so that when it is brought here, it's up and running. One of my concerns as I listened yesterday about the asset management is that our most expensive employees are the ones that are doing data entry on it. And their time is being spent on doing that, that really we should bring somebody in.

And I talked with all three of them. I said, get it to the point where it's an instruction. Let's hire an outside source that can have this. Their task is to have it done within this period of time.

And maybe it's four weeks because that's all they do. And they use their resources within their company. So we're ground run, hitting the ground running on this software. It's not taking us nine months or 18 months to get to just the basics of it because nobody has time to do that because they've got their regular jobs to do.

Sure. And I think what happens is a year and a half ago when I started here, I said, my observation, one of my first impressions of the organization as I got to know people and talked about their departments was a sense that we have grown from a culture of being the doers. And when you wear many hats or you have a small department, you're doing it all right. And it gets harder.

At some point as we get bigger, you have to stop being the doer and now the leader. Right. And I think that's where we're at. We're at that point where we're getting the tools we need to be more leader.

But sometimes when you're putting them in, it's like the way I learn, it's going to be helpful for me to sit down with the trainer and put the stuff in. So I understand how it all fits and works and integrates and things like that. Some people don't need that. But I think part of that is what you're seeing with these guys is they know it's all in their heads and they're trying to get it in.

There's going to be a data dump. I guess maybe I'll make the difference. Yeah. Training, you're right.

We're talking about going through how do you operate the software? How are you going to input new information? All that shit happens. Yeah.

But there's also going to be some data dumping that maybe it can't be uploaded like Melissa was talking about. Maybe everything doesn't exist in the CSV. Maybe we're talking about things where it's actual paper. We're talking about some of the planning things.

We have old documents that are really bad scans. Yeah. We really don't want to have our time consumed by the most expensive employees that really have other things that we need them to be doing. And maybe the time.

The entry level employees don't have the time because of what they're doing. So let's hire David. There's actually two. There's a company here in Eagle Mountain.

I think it's called Rocky Mountain Scanning. But they do it for like medical offices and different things like that. The old paper records. Yeah.

So something like this. And their very role is to scan and bring things to a digital readable version. You understand the point of what I'm saying. I absolutely agree.

We're using outside people to help make us hit the ground now that our implementation doesn't take 12 months because we're trying to get all that information in. So it's not really benefiting us when we intended to benefit us. No, Rich, I actually agree with you because what I was saying is I think we've had the mindset of doers and we're now happy to -- what you've done over the -- this council over the last year has said to the city staff, if you need extra help, we are going to get it for you. And that is a huge mindset difference and we're hearing that.

And so that's why I say when we go out and get project manager software, I'm actually thrilled with the idea that we can actually bring in training for it and helping us to get it set up because I don't want to be the person trying to figure out how it should look, right? But you need to be a part of the process because your knowledge base, just like with Brad and the pipes and sewer covers, someone who understands the software doesn't understand how we need to use it. Right. So that's where the training time and the implementation time is important.

So I think we're all acknowledging that and saying thumbs up. Yeah. Okay. Well, thank you for that.

So do we -- I don't know if the follow-up is, you know, if you want to look through these once you upload them or whatever and decide, determine -- What would you like us to do, Steve? What would be helpful for you? I guess the most -- the most helpful would be -- Let's go first off the things we don't want and come to Brad . Can we take a chunk of the list for the next, like, four weeks?

I think we all know what's on there, do you? That's -- this is -- so can we take a chunk of the list for the next four meetings and say, we just quick run through that chunk and make us more aware of it? Because there's context -- I think there needs to be an individual portion of that that happens before that. So when we come to have that discussion, we can reach a consensus.

Yeah. Let me take your suggestion and your suggestion combined with the heart. Okay. But Tuesday's too early for me to do that.

But let me -- let me put it by tab -- by department. Do my best to combine them. And two weeks from now, two weeks from Tuesday, we'll have a segment on there. And you can start going through as many tabs as you have time for.

So can I ask you to do this? Let's start with whichever department we have the most tasks. Planning. Let's start with the most.

And let's work towards -- because if you have one item, we don't need to be able to -- Are we talking about just the legislative priorities or are we talking about both? Probably both. Let's pull up the -- I'll get it from the strategic plan. I'll find a way to combine them both.

That would be helpful. And let's start to work through this. I'd say send us an electronic copy and let us start going through this. We need to do some individual homework on this too.

Like you can't just all exist in a work session because we don't have the time to do that. And frankly, I don't think that we come prepared if we're doing it that way. So give us a chance to look through it. I like to be prepared, look through those things, and then have an opinion so that when we're talking about it, say, okay, Donald, why is it that you think that this isn't a priority?

Or why do you think this is a priority? And I can have an opinion already so that it's like, okay, cross it off. We already know this is done or it kind of fits into this other thing. We're making three things that are kind of the same thing.

Yeah. Or we should shift it to a different department or any of it. Yeah, definitely the cleaner and more thought out, the less burden staff is coming. That's the hope.

Sure. Yeah. That's the hope. And the dream.

The dream. Keep dreaming. Yeah. Keep the dream alive.

Do you want, we don't have to do it now. We could do it now. Do you want to talk about some possible committee focuses? Yeah.

Tell us. You were going to come tell us this. Yeah. I've got a just sort of a brainstorm list.

It's not, it's just a starting point. So, and here's the thought on a committee. Now, anyone could be on a committee, right? If they have passion, interest, expertise, they could be, so a resident could be on a committee.

I think it's healthy to have, if we can, two council members on a committee. And preferably with different perspectives on the subject. Yeah. Right.

Yeah. Because you've got to come to balance, right? Exactly. So, kind of with that kind of laying the groundwork, here are some possible subjects that could be, committees could be formed to address.

And there could be some overlap here. I don't know. But like, for example, art, just art. And like one of the recommendations, I would say, you know, Rhett probably ought to be on that committee.

Right? Yeah. And Sherry probably ought to be on the other end of that. Probably.

Yeah. Because he's got to come from a fiscally responsible perspective of that. And I'm not. But when we're talking about art, you've got to be a little bit on the other end, right?

Yeah. And then, you know, we could probably pull from some of our educators that are in the teach art. What is that? There's a few out there.

Well, and Cindy Arnold. I can tell you. I know we could bring in some outside resources. We could bring in some state.

I've got access to some of those types of people. Oh, yeah. It does. That could give us some really good insight.

So there's, like, there's a potential one that could just kind of do, you know, dive down into some of the more nitty-gritty and kind of stuff. And then also, since you have, you know, we would have some residents and some professionals involved, they're going to add another little spice to it, right? So that's potential one. Another one is annexations.

So, like, for example, if you're going to annex the north area to be really an outdoor recreation mecca and a possible location for the new rodeo grounds, we want to -- And then, you know, that committee could, you know, come to the council and say, hey, here's the snacks we're running into. These are the things we're working on. This is the timeframe that we're anticipating. Things like that that can just spend a little more time on the detail that could really help us propel forward with greater confidence, I believe.

So another one -- okay, yeah, we talked about power generation. That would be -- that could be a committee, right? And if -- after this meeting, I'll -- there's some things I'm sure to see. I don't want to do it on recording.

But open space planning and management, you know, could even include trails. But this is -- this is one that always takes a little more work than I think most people anticipate. Because it -- you know, I think most people would look at open space and like, well, just don't build on it. And you're good, right?

But it doesn't -- it doesn't quite work that way. It actually takes work and planning and working with landowners, trying to figure out how to adapt to their situation and make it complimentary for everyone. And so, yeah, it just takes some detailed time. And that's the only way we're going to be able to preserve open spaces if we're actively pursuing it.

But definitely that one could overlap into -- you'll be a parks, trails, and open space planning, for example. Because if we brought trails into it, there's definitely trail management and planning to do. And there's a lot of little different interests. You know, you have the equestrian.

You have the motorized. You have the non-motorized. Pedestrian. Et cetera.

Yeah, pedestrian. And just all of those interests. And then you have to manage them all so that they don't conflict. And that just, you know, takes somebody kind of digging into it and working with all of those groups, right?

Flood control. That's a moving target, right? And I know we've got good people working on it, but from a staff -- Does that mean from like an emergency management perspective? It could be.

Yeah, I don't know. That's a great question. I'm not sure what flavor -- Engineering and planning, too, because we may need to upgrade our standards. Of how things are.

So like, to me, I think it's a mix. And there's some -- My hope, too, is that it would last to -- We might find opportunities to get a little bit ahead of it. You know, as we develop, those floodplains move on us, right? And the impact moves.

And it -- I know we try to anticipate that. I know engineering is going to be all over that. But there's always -- There's always a little more to the story. Of the nature of it.

Yeah, exactly. And we might be able to anticipate, okay, we've done what we can to this point. Or the developer's done what they can. But we still anticipate the possibility to run into an issue.

And, you know, so we might be letting homeowners know ahead of time, you know, that, you know, this is -- Maybe you're in a brand-new development and you haven't even thought about this before. But this next season, you might want to be ready just in case, you know, as things develop. So, yeah, it could go more engineering. It could go working with the developer.

It could go -- it could bump into emergency preparedness as well. So -- well, yeah, that's the next thing on my list is an emergency prep because I would like to see a new level here in our emergency prep. Now, as far as city to city goes, we do more than most cities by a good measure of -- By a lot. Yeah.

What about just reinstituting the DRD Hill-Lountain group? Because, like, originally when I was on council before, you gave me that assignment. And I felt like bringing -- it was Jeff and it was David Bacar with the ham radio staff. And once in a while, they'd send somebody from Sheriff and UFA and, like, different things like that.

And I feel -- and there were some community members. Yeah. This is an interesting thought because -- because of the detail. Well, just here's my question as we're trying to, you know, look through this on the fly here.

Is there's a lot of -- there's a lot of drilling down into details. Either it might be a category or it might be a specific area of the city. Those are details, right? Do we tie up the whole group doing that or do we bust it up?

That's what I'm trying to think through. Like, for example -- Like the community that has multiple responsibilities or you want the community to have very specific responsibilities? Yeah. Or does it break out?

And then does it become more regional, you know, in its focus? Or does it become -- Some of them -- They already exist, though, because the whole CERT team -- Yes. There's CERT areas throughout the whole city that there's a CERT leader of and they meet individually. Because, like -- Yes.

A CERT leader sends us a text and we all show up to the park to practice and -- Two varying degrees of success. Yes. I agree with that. Yeah.

You know, so some of them -- Because some of the areas are better than -- Like, I heard from some of our residents say, "I know we have a CERT group, but we haven't met in two years and I don't even know where we are right now." So -- Yeah. Well, and I think, too, that the committee could help replace that CERT leader with someone else who's asking. I know we had -- Like, guess what? You're the new CERT leader.

Yeah. But maybe to your point, though, maybe the committee is the overseer of that and you have a smaller subcommittee broken out and say, "Okay, we're going to include CERT in this fund. We're going to do emergency preparedness, blah, blah, blah." They're going to meet in the subcommittee and all they're going to do is bring to us the outcome of their subcommittee so that we can high-level take it back to the city council. Yeah.

That's -- That enables you to not take up, you know, senior staff and council time to all of these other committees. We can do some high-level things and then these subcommittees, which will probably be some citizens, and maybe it's not a senior staff member. Maybe it's the next level down that have been given these tasks in the specific department that could meet and do these things and kind of kick it back up, you know, upward. Yeah.

That's the way this is kind of feeling to me is to kind of -- you have this structure, but really the structure is just to keep everything organized and on task and resourced, right? But it's really the subcommittees that are going to do all the work. Yeah. So, yeah.

What it does is it allows you maybe your primary committee to take the things that are there and if we need to reach for other resources that maybe they're at the council level or they extend outside of the council level and go to a county or a regional level. Well, you certainly want to tap into those resources, right? Then that can be done by the committee to reach and bring them in there to accomplish those things and then, again, report back up to the council. Yeah.

Yeah, because definitely we want things to come to council, especially when something is identified as sort of, you know, maybe resource-like. Yeah. So there might be an adjustment to a plan somewhere or some -- Overexposed in some way. Yeah.

Well, I think that committee did a good job previously, but I do agree with you with the neighborhood version of it because they do have people that do the ham stuff regionally and they do have people that go to all of the emergency planning meetings for the county. When they very first moved in, they were like some kind of captains. I don't remember what it was. Those were all -- Yeah.

Those were all -- Yeah. Those were -- Yeah, but those were steak led. Yeah. They checked in with and it was somebody at the city that was on the other side.

Yes. And they would still do that if the steak still existed that way right now because not all the steaks are doing that. Well, no, I understand. I'm just saying that it was something that has been done.

So it's not totally unfamiliar. Correct. Agreed. To keep it alive.

It's something that we should because it's an organization that already exists. Yeah. You know, just -- We can keep it from not dying. Yeah.

Those little steak organizations because sometimes they will fade and we can keep them active. Okay. Just moving on then. This one -- This one could go different directions too.

This could be -- End up just being sort of a housing committee. But I started out with the concept of large lot success committee. And what really drove this one to me is Scarlet Ridge. And what we need to figure out -- and this is like, you know, this would be a task for a committee -- to figure out -- because the only way that large -- we're going to have large lots is for them to be successful.

And we need to know what it's going to take to make them successful. So there's going to be a little homework here. Now, like for example, we've seen and we hope to see some good successes in Firefly. But -- and there are some large lots in Firefly.

It's not predominantly large. But -- but there's elements of it. And I want to make a comment about this because I want to tell you this -- there's actually something that we do within my organization for work. Where we -- when something happens, and we don't know all the details of why it happened, call it an orange tag review.

But basically, we go back and we workshop from beginning to end. We started here. We got here. What were all the elements that created the impact of it?

Something didn't happen the way it was supposed to. Scarlet Ridge is a good example of that because there are factors that weren't really our fault. Right. It wasn't also market fault.

Right. Some of that was owner. Yes. Problems, right?

True. There's a lot that falls into that scope. Trouble is another example of something like that. Right.

So maybe with some of these things where you're talking about that, that could be the -- one of the responsibilities of that community is to find out why it isn't working or why we're having these problems. And then we can dig down into -- you know, because you're going to have staff members there. You're going to have, you know, people from the community there. We can go in and be honest about why this happened so we don't repeat.

Yep. And then the next time around, we have success with that, right? Some of the things we're not going to be able to fix. We can't fix bad business decisions.

You can't fix everything. I mean, that's out of our control. But if there are failures we can prevent, it would be awesome if we could do that. In some ways, I look at this a little bit similar to the motivations for starting the chamber, is we needed another perspective, another task force outside of the city of Morella that could approach business.

Yeah. That wasn't -- because as much as a city wants to try to help a business, by the nature of the beast, you're limited, right? So -- And sometimes there's conflicting interests. They are conflicting.

And it's not because we want to be conflicting. Right. We're just born that way, right? We're just made that way kind of a thing.

So, yeah. So, like, the chamber fills that gap in many respects that the city can't do. And thus -- well, I won't -- let Melissa talk about the successes of the chamber, but -- You're sitting in them. Yeah.

Let me walk you over to the hallway with a big check. Yeah. But, yeah. Like, you know, sometimes -- I just anticipate we're going to find situations where we have a well-meaning developer, but this person has great ideas, but just doesn't know how to execute and maybe could miss one secret ingredient that could mean the difference between success and failure.

And this committee could help keep them pointed in the right direction so that, you know, to help make those dreams come true. And I don't know what all the factors might be. I can guess at some of them, but we really need people to drill down into this and really study it and see what we can do and what we can't do about that. So -- Someone with some success with that, like Scott Hazard, might be a good one to be on there.

And then maybe someone like Craig Whiting who gets that in a more regional thing. I don't know. Yeah. So it's almost kind of a mentoring thing a little bit going on there, but certainly, you know, a connection between city and developer, for sure.

Another one -- oh, just venues. What -- I don't know. This maybe doesn't need to be a committee, but it certainly could be a committee. We could maybe just handle it as a council, but I don't know.

It's worth considering as a committee. What venues might be the most impactful? And what should we consider first? And -- Creating venues?

Yes. Yeah, creating venues. You know, like for example, do we put a little bit of money into Silver Lake or do we scrap that and do something totally different? Yeah, bigger.

Go bigger. But someone spending a little bit of time on that and coming back with a report. Like, for example, yeah, no, Silver Lake is good for little stuff, but if you want -- if these are your goals, we need to go bigger, and this is what we can reach if we do go bigger, and this is going to be -- Maybe to your point, I mean, not to get to the end of the week with this, perhaps something that we already have, like a social camp theater. We know that it's probably too small to be an effective concert series location, but maybe it's something that we could implement with the library for them to be able to view plays and small musicals and things like that, especially during the moment months, that would enable, you know, in working even with the -- with the Arts Alliance and other organizations as well that could be some of those smaller things, but we know that we want to have larger venues or where we can have concerts, where we can have pageants and things of that nature that maybe aren't going to all be inside, because we don't really have inside venues right now.

Yeah. You've been to the American Fork Library. Yes. They have a little -- small theater.

It's not -- it's like for those kinds of things that you're talking about. Eventually, we're going to need a much bigger theater, but for the little kids things and that kind of thing, but it's also great because if you have your legislators want to come in and talk and do an open house, there's room and it's comfortable instead of like a school setting where everybody's sitting on school chairs in a gym where they can't hear, you know, just -- It could be something that we can buy into the City Hall. Well, I think that needs to be a part of the Library City Hall stuff. People just preserve it, but they -- and they'll -- they'll preserve it for businesses as well, like businesses who want to have an employee meeting and don't have a place where they can all fit.

So, I agree with all the things that have been said. To me, it's a priority to make sure that we feed into the things that are already trying to bring these things to us against many uphill battles and help facilitate those instead of creating things that compete with them. So, we already have a community theater that does children's plays during the summer. I think it'd be great if we could find a way to help them get connected better with the Library and -- That's kind of the way I'm looking at it.

It might be a way to make them more successful by allowing the Library to be a participant in that. Well, and that's too -- when we talked about art funding, I said this is just visual right now. We should be thinking about -- But perhaps they shouldn't be the same funding mechanism. Perhaps they're -- they're separate.

And one is going to be -- this is the arts. And this one is going to be basically art display kind of a thing. So that we're -- that we can have specific focus on each of them. And I don't think they're the same.

I think that we want to have two different focuses on those and funding sources. Agreed. I understand that they're different. What I'm saying is I don't want us to forget about one of the branches of the arts.

In our effort to grow the other. I don't think -- And I think that always needs to be a part of the conversation. Yeah, but I think that they're very distinctly different. I agree with that.

Because you've got a public art project. Public art is -- it's visual by nature. It just is. And the community arts are no less valuable.

I'm not saying that they aren't. It's just it's a different animal. Because it's quite -- it's a little more nuanced. And it's smaller, in my opinion.

And it's not something that every member of the community can participate in and take advantage of. They could if they chose to, but they don't. Public art is on display in the city hall setting. It's for everyone's consumption.

You may hate it, but it's designed to compel an outcome for you to interact with it. Either to engage with it and enjoy it and find satisfaction in it. Or to literally dislike it, find displeasure in it. And have a negative reaction from it.

So I -- it's just -- it's a different conversation, Melissa. I agree. The reason why I have to strengthen ends with others is I've lived in communities where there was a hyper focus on one or the other. And it didn't allow for the bazillion people in that community to develop and gravitate toward the things that meet their needs and touch them.

I'm going to say, what I'm hearing, I don't think that's our problem here. I think that we have people who are passionate on both sides of this. And I think that we can support both of them equally. I think you have the support on the council for the performing arts, the visual arts.

I think we've identified that there's support for doing some of those things that are representation and character of who our city is. I don't think it has to be one or the other. One has to receive more focus than the other. I think there are two different things that we can absolutely put equal focus on.

I agree. Again, I don't like linear things. I think we can attack things horizontally and all at the same time. I just don't think you're hearing what I'm saying.

I don't disagree with you. I just think that we need to have something in our process that makes sure that we look at both. That's what I'm saying. It could be different funding.

It could be a different process. Are you feeling like we don't? Is that what you're saying? No.

I'm trying to understand what you're concerned about. That's why I listed them separately. So that they would both have a venue and art. I'm trying to understand your concerns.

I'm asking questions because I don't understand what you're -- what are you concerned about? Nobody's saying no to something. I -- there must be a misunderstanding. Just go ahead.

Good. Okay. I only have two more things on my list that I created. The next one is historical preservation.

Now, we've made some efforts on, you know, petroglyphs, things like that. But I feel like that's not finished. Right. And then there are other historical elements.

I don't have a point at Chris Joe. How are we going to do with that? Yeah. All that kind of stuff.

Yeah. Joe's dugout. What are we going to do there? And Paul's room has got to be on that.

Yeah. If you can get in there. Yeah. Because he has all that.

He -- Because this is -- He loves it. Yeah. This is something that -- it needs someone kind of doing that nerd level focus on to make sure -- Well, and I'm bringing some of our histories that we're still not even touching. Greg Hanson is fantastic.

He comes to the seniors. He's been there now a couple of years. And so I introduced him to them. They love the stories he tells.

He tells the stories of Johnson's army. He knows the history of this valley. Yeah. He'd be great.

That's cool. He's really an inspirational, interesting character. I think one of the tie-ins with the historical stuff, too, should be documenting our history. There was a tie-in -- Scott, I think it was in 2021, came and did like a chamber luncheon and talked about the history of just this area and how we evolved into what we are.

And I think those things are really neat because most people don't know. And I think that there's a big tourism tie-in to something historical. So if we're doing -- we're kind of cultivating this history, we should be always thinking of how we could turn that into a tour because that's what the State Tourism Department says is the best and easiest way for us to start. How do you celebrate it?

So through reenactment? Yes. Or just like even -- A Johnson's army reenactment would be awesome. Freaking fantastic.

But also, you know -- That would be awesome. We rode in a wagon this year for Pony Express Days. And we can rent it every year for $1,500. Or we can buy one for $3,000 or whatever, right?

And at some point, my goal is to have a bunch of wagons. The reality is it shouldn't just be on Pony Express Days. We have -- do you remember the wagon we used to do during Christmas? Yeah.

Everybody comes down and -- it didn't cost them a thing. The volunteers -- I mean, all of Jared's people were coming with their horses, hooking up to wagons, and taking people on this simple little ride just around the park. And they were lined up like 50, 60 people deep. That's the kind of traditions that are meaningful.

Within our community, think a little bit bigger with the tourism aspect. When people will come for the Olympics the year preceding and the year after, they will be like, "Fun things to do in Utah." If we have a stagecoach ride or something that takes them on -- I'll tell you something I talked to Jared about when we were talking about downtown. You know what they do up in Soldier Hollow during the wintertime with the snow rides? Like, "Look, we don't always have snow, but we could absolutely have our own rides that exist up along the foothills that kind of go along the way and kind of come down through downtown." It would be a tourism attraction.

Well, they have blankets and all that that you put on when you're on those rides. When people come to the area, they're looking for things to do. We want to have on our website the best SEO with the wagon ride and, you know, take a step back into the past. So, like, what Mayor's saying is dead on.

We should have that committee. But when we do that, I think we should always have an eye on how could we make this something that's a draw. Yeah, that's cool. Like, for example, I didn't know, you know, if a tourism committee, for example, that's kind of broad.

But who knows? We might go there. But do these touch on all of the elements? Do they give us opportunities?

I don't anticipate that my list is comprehensive. There's probably a few things. You can find if we just focus on a handful and start. Yeah.

Just kind of start. It's going to branch out to there. One other one. Sorry to interrupt you.

One other one that I think is crucial, and this more is IT. In the IT world of all of the IT managers for cities and directors, they have, what's it called, a mutual aid agreement that some of them have gotten into so that when there's a catastrophic attack or something like that, all the bright minds from the other cities can come together and help you because it's more than you can get down by yourself. I know Provo for sure has been working on something like that because their IT director was talking to me about it. But there's also a crap ton of really bright people in our community where not only could we look at security for us in the city, but maybe we could up our offerings from a STEM perspective and those really bright minds could come and present at the library or something like that.

So IT I think is an important community we should start there. Yeah. That's valid. On my list I only have one more item and that is agriculture as an industry, as a business.

So if, the reason I put it that way is because if we're going to, it's more than even just keep agriculture here because even our agriculture is not where it needs to be. Yeah. And in an ever changing world, we're going to need to find what does agriculture of the future look like and how can we ensure that it has life here and help expedite that and help clear the way. Because even, you know, even the cattle industry, you know, don't grazing that, you know, the natural tendency of that is it just gets pushed out, which, okay.

I mean, we might decide we can live with that or we might decide we want something different. And, but a committee could look at that and decide what, what's reachable, what can be done and what we want to do. Because frankly, as I have talked to state people and no one's doing it, it's just not happening. So this is another thing.

We're impacting the cultural uses in Utah. We're pushing our food sources out. We are. And frankly, we're kind of doing it as a country right now.

It's going to get to the point where we're importing beef from Brazil and Argentina. Yep. And, you know, I mean, there's always going to be a certain amount of that. But what is our comfort level?

Where do we want to land? Where do we want to be in the long run? Well, I think the job can teach people some self-sufficiency of how we can use this land. And even the things that we've seen over at the school for the big building.

That's my hope is that will be the seed, you know, propelling into the future. But, yeah, what does this look like? I mean, I wanted to reach beyond just simple home gardens kind of a thing or even community gardens. I want to, like, can we, can we sustain elements of agriculture?

With a limited water. Like a city? Yeah. Under our circumstances.

With our lousy soils and limited water in short seasons. What can we do? Yeah. I just feel like you would take a committee to invest that time.

I think there are things that can be done. We won't be able to do everything. You know, we're not going to grow, probably not going to grow bananas here. Right?

But cattle, definitely. So we want to make sure that we're clearing the way for cattle. Is, you know. Corn and wheat can be grown here.

We know that. It was grown here. Dried. Yeah.

Dried farming. Yeah. Dried farming stuff. Is there, yeah.

Yeah, hydroponics offers a real opportunity. I mean, without disclosing much, because we can. I mean, you came with me for that. Yeah.

I visited a site within our city. There's quite a bit of hydroponics that's going on. They're growing large scale crops. And so it's very interesting.

That's all I'm going to say. But just realize that there are entrepreneurs out there that are pursuing that. And that's something that we can certainly capitalize. Yeah.

Anyway, just something to consider. That's everything I have on my list. Like I say, I'm sure I didn't think of everything. I actually have a list that I'm, when you said that yesterday, I was pretty excited about it.

I just kind of held it in. Yeah. But it's funny how many of the things overlap. Cool.

So I made this two years ago. Just thinking about those same things. How do we better, you know, address some of these things in a smaller setting that the city council doesn't have time to go in their meetings. Is there anything else on your list?

I'll tell you. Here are the committees that I wrote down. And it's funny because I said the same thing. Two council members need to be on there.

I said a respected department head and a chairman of the board, which would genuinely be one of the citizens of maybe a citizen board. But as you're saying this, I'm kind of thinking perhaps this is a replacement for citizen boards. So I don't know that how, whether I'm one way or the other on that. Yeah.

All right. So here's what I had. Economic Development Committee. I think that enables us to bring in some of our biggest and brightest in the city and help to have some of those connections that maybe we're trying to foster, but they already exist.

That's something that could be helpful. Roads and Engineering Committee. Parks, Open Space, and Cemetery Committee that would address some of the things that you've talked about. Planning, Building, and DRC Committee that maybe could, you know, Brandon's been talking about an architectural review board type thing.

In fact, it absolutely exists within that that helps us specific, especially if we're talking about like a downtown architectural review. It can exist within that or even some of the things that we're talking about that we're wanting to do overlays with that we want to utilize for specific economic benefit. Um, and then Neighborhood Improvement and Historical Preservation Committee, not the neighborhood improvement that we talk about now. I'm talking about actual revitalization and caring for the neighborhoods.

And beautification. Beautification and historical preservation could have that. Because it wouldn't be, historical preservation, it would not be busy necessarily every single month about that, perhaps. But that could be one of the things that could accomplish.

Uh, the more I think about this one, I think there's, this is probably a necessary thing. A water, storm, water, and sewer committee. Where they deal with what our assets are, what our needs are going to be with each of these things, and help us, you know, kind of become our warning of, we're approaching dangerous levels of whatever. They could also do something.

Or usage is too high, et cetera. Like some community classes. In a lot of ways, how Central Utah Water has different things like that. That might be something that there's a community education aspect that they can tie in with the library.

And maybe even come up with some incentives to get people to participate by a training program or something like that. Uh, a lot of things that could be done with that. Public Safety, Military, and Veterans Committee. Be able to address those.

Because again, I don't know that each of those needs something every single meeting. But perhaps that's a way for the public to be involved in, you know, coming to you and saying, "Look, we have a real problem at this park that keeps getting graffiti. How are we going to address this? What are some of the solutions?" Et cetera.

Uh, also community relations, events, and recreation. Because I feel like the three of those kind of go hand in hand. Uh, how we're, our events and our recreation are one of the ways that we kind of present ourselves to the community, right? And to have the community relations and how we're getting that information out.

I think that helps us to kind of stay on the tip of the sword. Uh, Library, Public Education, and Election Committee. Uh, I, I remember we talked about this a little bit. I remember we added the Elections Committee on there to maybe take some of the burden off with staff for that to allow them to engage with the county.

Uh, but I don't know exactly how that works. I just remember writing that down for a couple of years. Would it be one that also leads out, like, with the debates and things like that? That's what we were thinking.

And meet the candidates? Yeah, that they would kind of take that off the hands of them and set up maybe multiple debates and also come up with, they would spend the time putting together candidate information and the distribution of that, et cetera. So that then the election official could have focused on the election, but this is more of like a- Yeah, so I mean it really can be a lot of things, right? But that would help maybe take some of the burden off it.

Then the last one, so I had a Legislative and Code Committee. I don't know where I'm at on that one anymore. I don't remember why I put that one on there. But I did add the two that you added, the Mayor, the Power Committee and the Agriculture as a Business Committee.

I think that there's some benefit to that. And honestly, I hope we have farmers that are on that and even cattlemen that are doing those types of things. But man, it would be awesome if we could get somebody from an act school to be a Board Mayor on that, to help us. Any words you share your list?

And Rich, would you share your list just with the Council members? Sure. So the staff, if staff's interests, we've been seeing that. Yeah.

Just so that we have a chance to have a hard copy for review. I've got notes right here from both. I figured you just send that. Oh, I was too lazy to take notes.

Yeah. I figured the Mayor would send me his list. I knew he had it in a list form. Can I offer some comments?

Pro Bowl had a really robust committee system. But it wasn't a third the length of this list. One of the concerns that I would have is the ability of a committee to meet and generate more work for the staff, especially if you've got staff participating in these meetings. Be aware of that.

I think that's one of the important parts of that. Yeah. We should absolutely utilize virtual with this. They don't need to be sitting in the same room.

Oh, that's not what I'm going with. What I'm going with it is just the ability to create work and staff time involved in all those things. We had kind of a policy around it. And what we had was very similar.

We had one less than what it took to make it an open public meeting. We had staff assigned. One of the things our council members really found helpful was that somebody take notes for the meetings and then share them with the rest of the council so they at least know what's going on. And then you don't take as much time up in, say, a public meeting unless you have something you specifically want to talk about.

I really like that. That's… But my caution is just be aware of the two things. The workload on staff to be part of all these and the amount of extra workload you can create out of ideas that come out of those committees. But that said, I'm a fan of committees.

I find them to be very effective and helpful. Just be aware of how many and how often those kinds of things. Yeah. In fact, I'm not sure if this is what you're saying or not, but one of the things I thought of is there may be advantages to keeping them sort of ad hoc level because then they don't have to jump through all the hoops that an official organization would.

Right. It's really just from my perspective, I see the committee as just an idea generation of the factory. Yeah. That's what I see it as.

Which is great, but those ideas become work. And that's what I'm saying. Like, I love the committee structures, but my office had five employees, plus we were bringing in somebody from… I guess the way I see that converting into work is that it's going to get through a council priority. Yeah.

To be able to… Yeah. That's how I see it. Yeah. But I think Cliff is also referring to even just time commitments to staff.

So I think that's very important for us to report that. Yeah. And I think we need to maybe evaluate what Rich was saying because if we're going to do these committees… To probably replace the board, we may want to look at replacing the boards because I think that's a lot to ask of staff to be… have to sit on boards and all of these committees… Well, I'm just going to be frank. I'm not comfortable creating every single one of these committees.

Right. I think it's too many. Yes. These are just ideas to consider.

Right. I agree with that too. Yeah. And I'm fine if we take baby steps into this and develop confidence.

Like, we'll see if something really works or not. If it goes game busters, then maybe we elevate it. If it struggles, maybe we keep it at a lower level. I don't know.

But… One other one that we didn't… Neither one of you guys talked about was some sort of health and welfare committee because that is something about that healthy stuff and… Oh, yeah. We need a healthy… Yeah. So I think that should be on our… That's a straight one, yeah. Because we said we wanted to achieve that and we have to have a committee.

What did you call that? Health and… Welfare committee. We can change it. I can't remember what it's called.

But yeah. Like a well-being committee. It's the status that you're looking for. Yeah.

So one of the other things that I would recommend is that we look at… There could be a committee that really encompasses maybe three of these and we put them all together in the beginning because of staff, because of people, all of those things, full well knowing that five years from now we're probably going to split it into three different committees because we'll have the people, the staff, and the projects and things for them to work on. These could be subcommittees. Right. So what I'm saying is maybe the next eye that we look at with this is which ones of these could be combined to like kind of just start.

And then from there, I think it'll be really evident once they've operated for several months or a year. Oh, this needs to be split off and something completely different kind of thing. Okay. I think we made some good progress here.

One of the things that we should try… I don't know if we can make a closure on it or not, but what we want to do with that Saratoga annexation, if we're going to give a letter of support or no. Mark will be hitting me up Monday, Tuesday. Yeah. What's the, what's the, what's the, what's the appetite?

What's the downside? Well, and also, isn't it a little bit out of our control? Even if we didn't write the letter of support. Well, you can tie it up by, you know, where's some legal avenues.

I mean, that's exactly what the people would say. That's what I'm worried about. The timing of that only delays it. It doesn't necessarily prevent it.

And that's what I'm asking. Like, even if we were to or were not to, does it ultimately have anything besides we don't like this? I'm not suggesting the timing. No, I, I'm not either.

But I'm just saying before we decide yes or no, does it really make a difference in the grand scheme of things? Will it actually change anything? And then if it doesn't, then we should just decide whether or not. So let's talk about what the concerns are of allowing the annexation to go forward.

If it changes our annexation plan, it makes it impossible for us to annex the, the other section that I, I really don't want to see Saratoga Springs develop. Yeah. If it changes our annexation plan. If it changes our annexation plan, it changes our annexation plan.

If it changes our annexation plan. Yeah. Does anybody have any. Like.

Whether it's Marcus. Steve. Cliff. How specific can we be.

Let's. Let's say. I mean. Just hypothetically.

We give them a letter of support. And we say. We support this. However.

Include our support. These are our requirements. Or this is an area. That gives us some additional concern.

Yeah. It's a portion of it. Yeah. We limit it.

Yeah. I don't think we can demand anything. It's an ask. No.

But it's. It's. It's tied to the letter of support. Right.

Yeah. I think. In the. In the past.

They've asked us. You know. A year ago. Or so.

They asked us. For a letter. About various properties. In that area.

And we said. No. We're not going to do that. Because there are properties.

We're really concerned about. And I. I asked that very question. If we submit a letter.

We would like. To include. Requirements on there. Or.

Items. That we're concerned about. And they said. We prefer a letter.

That doesn't have anything. Well. You're not going to get that. And at the end of the day.

I mean. Isn't it. A letter of support. We did.

They're going to make the decision. Right. Regardless of what we say. Yeah.

I think they've demonstrated. They don't want to get. This area. Maybe.

Yeah. Is a further conversation. I don't. I'm not going to speak to the staff.

I know where the elected officials have said they stood. But. If we can ask for these things. Maybe that's some of the things that we're going to get that.

To the honest point. Maybe. Maybe protecting that ridgeline. Is one of those things.

What difference does it make to Saratoga. Or to the applicant. In the end. If we just say.

You know what. We just. We still have some discomfort about this invitation. And we just don't give them a letter.

I mean. Yeah. Where is that? I think they're.

That's a good question. Because I think. The only reason they're asking for a letter. Is they're required by law.

To. To get one. Because. It's within our policy.

Oh like. And what happens if we don't give it to them? Is there anything? Is that.

Is that something. They go. It's required by law. One in the hospital.

It doesn't. It doesn't make a lot of sense to it. It required a letter. But it doesn't have any.

Right. Nothing binding. Well because yeah. Even if.

Like. Even if we had stipulations. A letter of support. It doesn't matter.

The stipulations mean anything. Like. No. It's a letter of support.

In the sentence. They just said. To meet the requirements. Of state tone.

And. To meet the. And. To meet the.

And. To meet the. And. To meet the.

And. To meet the. And. To meet the.

I know. There's a process. To do. Because when we go through.

The annexation process. There's a protest. Period. Yeah.

And so. You know. If they. Choose to.

To annex it. like to protest that one section. That one section, but that's a different section. Maybe that's the way we approach it at the end of the courts crossing.

Yeah, maybe we just, that's, maybe that's how we approach it. We just say we will be protesting. Well, we can put a letter of support for the one, but we protest the other. That's what you're saying?

Yeah. Are these separate parcels? No, that's the problem. So I don't think we write a letter of support that, yeah, makes it impossible.

Wait, wait, wait. How are they not separate parcels? We're just talking about the western 40 acres or so. Yeah, there's 162 pieces though.

Yes. You're talking about this piece right here, not the piece of bread. Yeah, but it's one big long parcel. So by saying, yes, we support the annexation, we're supporting the whole annexation.

I don't know if we can. The camera is like, what symbols is she making? Where are you? I'm kind of neutral on this.

It's really silly for me to say that because I'm listening to what's being said and I share some of those very same concerns. I guess, I guess I have a little more confidence in our Saratoga councilmates that they'll, that they'll help look after our interests. And will they or won't they? I don't know.

Maybe that's naive, but that's kind of where I'm feeling. Well, there's certainly a different council. I will tell you some of the reasons for my concerns. The edge development, not Saratoga.

There were petroglyphs there. And they called me, the state, which is Jen Morrison, Morris, Morrison. Anyway, she's gone. But she called me and said, Oh my gosh, they're destroying the petroglyphs.

Can you stop them? I called Chris Porter. He said, Yeah, I'm on it. They destroyed them all.

Steve, can you bring up the petroglyphs. So they don't have, at least then, they didn't have that same level of care that we have. This is the one thing I'm going to say to this. So let me say this.

I don't want to say that I won't support the position of let's not give them a letter or let's not give them a letter or let me say, Oh, I'm going to focus that one section. But I think you should be specific to that, if that's where we land. Yeah. So I'm going to kind of maybe talk about what both of you have said.

Because to Donna's point, what is compelling them to develop this line? The only thing that we know right now that they're going to do is the school. So though we have the support of this council now, what's going to compel them to come through this line while we have the support of the council that exists in Saracoga Springs now? Yeah, that's true.

Maybe it's 15 years from now. Did they not want to do some density? There's nothing. There's no other application that's on there.

They want to add it to their development area plan. It states that in the position. So, to be clear, the piece where you can see the parcel numbers and things like that, that is the piece that they're asking to annex. Correct.

Yes. There's a piece that's south of that that's going in the opposite direction, perpendicular. But we can't, we can't annex that, well we could, but it would be dumb. It is a part of our city though.

And our bike park goes into it. Like if you look at the map. Yeah. There are two different parcels, that's what I was trying to wrap up.

Yeah. One of the things I said to Chris before we walked out is the other thing is that that was our access to BLM. That a lot of people use has been cut off by whoever's leasing the land from the church. The church closed it because of a liability.

It wasn't the church. Sitla closed it for a while for shooting. Sitla did. And then also the person who was harmed him shut off that entrance on Porter's Crossing.

So, I guess the question that I'm asking is why do we want the 40 acres in our land? What are we planning to do with it? If we don't have a plan, why are we contesting it? That would be maybe the first thing.

If we want the annexation of that line because they want to develop the land. That's the whole point of it. And that section that runs north and south, what would we plan for that to be if we had no intention of it being anything other than maybe a few acres because of unbuildable land? They're certainly not going to be, because it's Sitla land, they're going to be uninterested in our perspective on that because they're looking for maximization.

I think one of the things that's standing out to me is there has been, I don't know if it's still this way, Elise Erler was our Sitla person, but there was a different Sitla person for Saratoga. And for years, Elise has talked about us, you know, Mount Annex, seeing those pieces in. And part of me is wondering if even Sitla is collaborating on what they want. Because maybe our Sitla person will advocate for us to keep something.

Like, to me that's, and if that's the case, then, because she was talking, I think because of the coming over and eventually the mid valley road that punches out over through Criwa Valley. But it was a surprise to me when they said they wanted an annex into Saratoga. Because she's always been adamant to me that she wanted that piece of Eagle Mountain. And what I want to know is, are there still two different Sitla people?

I don't think so. I think it's Elise. It's just weird. But it wasn't before because there was a guy for Saratoga and Elise for us.

So, yeah. I would say that from Saratoga, I would think from Saratoga's perspective, it wouldn't make sense for Eagle Mountain to have that piece because it's on their side of the hill. And we could potentially service it, but it depends on the depth of the sewer at Polish Crossing. Max said yesterday, I asked him about that, the annexation piece, that top one.

He said the very eastern portion, we would have a hard time servicing the sewer. The western portion, we could. They will too. Maybe they had the problem at the school.

They would have a hard time with water or everything. Yep. I'm not sure how they're going to. So, is there any way, so where would the Cuyahoga, the road, where would Mid Valley Road come through, Steve, with your cursor?

Oh, gosh. What we submitted for the study. I don't have that, a copy of that map. But in general.

It comes, in general, it's kind of like here. Okay. So, is there, there have been other roads, including Woodhaven stoplight and Golden Eagle connecting down and different things. Is there any concern at all that Mid Valley Road could be held up because they don't want it to punch through and attach to something and put the traffic through their cities?

Well, we have the support of stairs for the springs completely. Right now. Well. They fought us for years.

I'm just saying, like, there are a couple of places in our city that are completely screwed over because of adjoining cities not making it a feasible egress. For us. I would say that this is a road that I don't anticipate they're not having a foot on the gas on us. For me personally, when the feasibility is done, it's what's the next step, so let's get on those next steps.

Because that road is going to have the greatest impact on helping us get in and out of the city. One hundred percent. But I think this is an amazing step in the way. I know you understand it, but.

Right now they're not doing that. Everything that the council and the mayor is saying is that they're on board. They want it. They understand that it's a benefit to their city, so we're not impacting Redwood and Pony Express.

But what she's saying is that road is going to be extremely expensive, and it is not going to happen right away because of how expensive it is. So we're going to have to start and what is going to have to happen from both ends, right? But they have no, there's no reason why they would want to help push that toward us if we're coming from both ends. Are you saying that they would start working on their own?

Mark Christian still says he's on board with making this road happen. I can't speak to what that means. You'll have to ask it yourself, but no one over there is opposing this being built and moving forward with it. I think they've demonstrated already their willingness to build roads to get the state or MAG to move.

And I think we're going to have to do that no matter what anyway. We're going to have to start building the roads. Feasibility studies underway. We hired Avenue consultants as a group.

Do we know when they expect to be done with that? I thought it was soon, wasn't it? Well, and I want to be abundantly clear. I'm not saying that they do oppose it.

What I'm saying is if we're writing a letter of support, is there a downside that potentially that could screw us over with a major egress? I mean, we are showing that those things that I don't know that it does necessarily. Well, I would just say that it's a real concern when they share it. I'm going to say that.

But I think it's kind of immaterial because without some connectivity to the remainder of their city, it's meaningless anyway. So I don't think that that creates a specific or additional barrier to the connectivity that we want to see happen anyway. I mean, if they're not on board with that, they can stop it. So what you're saying is if they wanted to stop it, they could stop it anyway.

That's what I'm saying. I'm not saying the concern isn't valid because it is. It's not as if we decide to share it with you, but it's not as if we say, yeah, we're okay with this, that then they can change their mind and say that road can't come. Well, okay.

If we keep it and we annex it, we can get it another 40 acres closer to the point we want it to, but we can't get it to where we do it without their cooperation. Can I just ask a question to you just for the next time? If this is such an important piece of land to us, why didn't we annex it or work to make that happen sooner? We actually did.

We tried to work with SITLA a while back. They actually came to us and asked us to annex. Just the lower portion? Like the north side portion?

No, all of it. I think it was the whole thing. Well, the other part doesn't belong to SITLA. It doesn't belong to SITLA.

That belongs to the church. Oh, okay. But they were working. I wonder if it's still the ones then.

Okay. So the church is driving this less than SITLA is? But even SITLA is? But they're driving it for what Brett said.

This is the carrot for them to be able to add this piece of land into their development area plan. I don't think that they have any intention of immediately developing it. They're trying to maximize their density and current investment. Probably so they can sell women to school cards a little less than they otherwise do.

That's what I was saying to Chris. You know, if they add into it, we have some legislative authority. And I said, why add it into it? Add it with a specific zoning.

You're within your rights to do that with an annexation. So you completely control the outcome. Yeah. Instead of some-- Bring it into this act.

That's what I was trying to tell them. Or whatever. Bring it into the zoning that you're comfortable with. They want to do single-family homes, so bring it into the single-family less than 6,000 square feet.

So ADUs can't exist there. That's why I was saying I would definitely bring it into-- Well, and it's like Jim said. Jim said we want to have these conversations. Like, we're ahead of this.

I mean, so-- I mean, the mayor is really back to his question. Are we writing a letter to support? Yeah. And if-- I guess I don't care.

What difference does it make is the question that-- And I probably-- So you're saying we have to, for them to be able to do it, so that they can move forward, knowing that we're not going to protest? What's going to end up happening here is the obvious. We're going to get crucified over holding up this-- 100%. That's why I said, what difference does it make?

Whether we write it or not-- That's the difference. If it comes through with goodwill, like, OK-- Because I think it's a battle that we're not going to change. That's what I'm getting at. So if we're not going to change it, then we should write the letter of support with a few little things of concern.

We hope that our neighbors will, you know, have an eye toward historical preservation or whatever it is. But either way, it feels like this is going forward. So if we don't write the letter, then we look like the jurors. When we write the letter, let's write the letter based on what Jim and Chris said.

We're willing to relinquish the annexation of this property with the understanding of the set purpose for the intent for this to be single-family homes. And even though it's not binding, but in discussion with the city council members, this is what our understanding is, and we'll relinquish it with that understanding. Now, they can absolutely screw us on that. But they also have to answer for that to their citizens as well.

And that means that they'd get the other-- Not necessarily. Yeah. What-- how-- how else could they come in? We can't provide for them because they're not touching-- If it's like a flag lot, you're not wrong.

So if you want to add that caveat into it and say, because this basically-- what's the word I'm looking for, Steve? What creates a flag lot? It-- it blocks it. It blocks action.

What is it called? Contiguous? Like an island. Yeah, non-contiguous.

It's a non-contiguous parcel. We ask the city council put together a rich line similar to whatever to protect this area from development. That's all you can do. But those are still asks.

They're not-- they're nothing about it. That's all you can do. And that's why I-- that's why I am hesitant to say, yeah, let's do it. Just because that's all they are is asks.

The opposite end of that, though, Donna, is then we have to answer for putting a hold on the high school being built. And I don't think any of us want to be honest. Well, can we just give our letter of support for the Sittler property only? But Donna says once we-- and this is true.

Well, the Sittler property is not going to open up. It's the church. And even if we do that, it doesn't matter because we can't really have a claim, basically, on the other piece. But it's in our annexation plan.

That's what I'm saying. It's been in our annexation plan. It should not just letter would only address-- Yeah. But what Donna is saying is that it effectively acquiesces-- We give up our annexation plan.

Even though it's adjacent to our city boundary, it's not accessible. Right. Yeah, unless you're coming, you know, somehow-- What are we planning there besides protecting it? That's maybe-- That's what I was asking.

Like, what are we going to do with it? Well-- They're going to want to develop some of it. And it's Sittler land, so you know it's going to be everything we don't want it to be. I don't know.

Sittler land was overland. That's not everything we didn't want it to be. Well, I'm going to tell you what. Kobe had him pretty pissed off.

He was going to do a whole lot of things. But do we-- Prince was. I mean, let me ask this question. Do we really want to have to service that going forward?

Yeah, maybe not. Do we really want to have to service that? Well, you've heard from Matt. It already is going to be an issue with water and sewer.

Yeah. We already have those issues down in the bottom of Silver Lake where they're emptying out solids. I don't know what you're talking about. I don't know.

Do we have to have empty stations down there like we're doing in Silver Lake over by Brookwood? Do they come and empty the South South? No, they come and pump out the low spots in Silver Lake. Because I think it's over by Brookwood is what they're doing.

There is a lift station there in that Southeast area. Oh, is that what they're doing? Do they have to pump it out? Okay.

They just have a problem. But yeah, according to Mac yesterday, the Western portion of this piece, we would be able to sewer without, it sounds like, without lift stations. But to what end? I mean, how many homes would we even put on the West end of it?

That's great. We wouldn't put a lot of homes. You've got 40 acres. That's a lot of homes that put on 40 acres.

If we put it there, how much of this is buildable? And if we put it there, will those homes be able to? If you're talking about the East-West, it's flat. They can put everything there.

Yeah, but that, oh. Yeah, I get it. That entire area is buildable with whatever they want to do there. It doesn't have any topography issues there.

I'm super familiar with that because I used to ride my side by side. So even if we have a tension of protesting it, it's immaterial if they decide to have it. So it just slows it down. Yeah.

It's really… Because that's what the landowner wants? It's up to Saratoga Springs to make this decision. Can we ask them to… What's the point of having a protest period for organization? That's a good question.

I don't know the answer. If the school wasn't attached to that, we could protest that and say we're not comfortable with the outcome of that, frankly. And then they have to decide to move forward without us, but I don't know if the protest… But we keep saying it doesn't matter, then why do they even have it? Well, I don't know.

That's the thing that Marcus is looking up for is what is the purpose of a protest letter. I mean, it requires… So if there's no protest, then they can just essentially fast track it. Right. If there's a protest, then it lengthens out the process.

They have a public hearing. And then people come in and they, you know, if you have a public hearing, do what you do? I don't know any public hearing. People don't want that.

You know. Let's see. Outside of creating a requirement of public hearing, does it change anything? It's just public hearing.

No, like they can still prove it after the public hearing, obviously. But I thought we had to have, when we annex land and no one's protest, no city's protest, that we've still had a public hearing. There is longer. So you have to have so many days of, that it can be open too.

It's like, if there's no protest and there's another seven days, and then there's like 14, like, it's weird, but it means nothing because even if you protest it, what's it going to do? That's the question. It's kind of like a strong mean word letter. Like, pretty far off.

They're going to annex it. Yeah. If we protest it and they, they say, okay, great. We'll jump through some additional groups, but we're still going to annex it.

And we're still going to let them put the school there. Where's the mannequin in that? I guess that's my question. It creates some public hearing opportunity.

Is this annexation creating any sort of like island or peninsula? Well, they are. Because they have an annexation plan because that bottom part of the L is a separate parcel. Yeah.

It's part of our annexation plan. Right. So they would just be either way. The property that goes north, south, up and down would be, it would block us from being able to utilize that because there's no connections.

Right. So it would still be unincorporated. Correct. And is that, is that an island or peninsula or an appropriated county or?

Yes. We wouldn't have any questions. Okay. So that's why they want the letter.

Now I was a little bit confused as to why they wanted the letter. Okay. What does that do? Well, so you have like, you can't approve an annexation that creates, you know.

An unincorporated island or peninsula unless you need certain additional requirements. And one of which is that it not be within another municipality's annexation policy plan unless the other municipality agrees the annexation. That was, I was like, why am I? That was confusing.

Like, why do they even care? But that's the only reason because they're creating an island. So if we oppose it, they can't move forward because it creates that condition. Or we have to iron it out in some illegal fashion.

I am going to say I'm not really in favor of opposing it because. Yeah. So I am and I'm not. I hate it because it's attached to my neighborhood.

If I'm being totally selfish here, I hate everything that it's going to do to it. But if I'm not wearing that hat and I'm wearing this, what difference does it make? But I'm going to tell you, I'm still not in favor of connecting the roads into that. That would create corridors of traffic that would be detrimental to the neighborhood and also the chances of crossing those roads.

Because that won't end. They're going to continue to do that. Right. Part of that too is going to have to look at what potential boundaries would be.

Because right now, like where Pony and Brookhaven are, like if it was like that where the lines are drawn. Yeah. The people that go that way, most of them are Pony and there's a very small chunk in that neighborhood. And this branch is really brocaded by the abandoned area.

It is. So like, I'm just wondering, even if we protest it, in the end, does that just make it die? Like it's just going to stay unannexed? Or can that be presented again as an application for annexation?

I don't think it's going to die. They could choose to annex a smaller section of their property. So the question is, I mean, it looks like it's already an island. If it's going to create, it would just create a smaller island.

So they really. Oh, it's connected to there. So it doesn't really create an island. It's a.

Yeah. It's connected to us here. It creates a peninsula essentially. Yeah, but the peninsula is already there.

So they don't even need our ladder. It don't even, it shrinks, because it shrinks the peninsula there. Yeah. Is the, that white area within our annexation?

Our annexation. It's just that L. Basically included a line that comes down here. Yeah.

But the other piece is already gone. Yeah. Right. It's when they annexed the first piece that created the, uh, the peninsula there.

Which that would have required our, our approval from this scenario. Were you able to determine whether or not would we restrict access? Would we restrict? Oh, your question this morning.

I mean, there's nothing that requires us to like connect our road to the road of, like to make, bring our road entirely to a border. So it connects. That being said, they could just, uh, take it. But here's the thing too.

So Porter's crossing. If they needed it. So there's really nothing to do to stop them. Like, depending just like, oh, we're going to stop this road, you know, 20 feet from our municipal boundaries.

So that the road that ends here and it doesn't connect to a road leading into our. That's what, that's how it is now. I mean, they just, they, it creates a roadblock for them, but they could just take it from our city. They could just take it through eminent domain.

They would own the property. From our city. They can, no, it would still be in our city. It would still be a, yeah.

They, you can, so one public body can, through eminent domain, can take the property of another public body. And it is a higher and better use of the property. So this. So if we're just leaving it idle and they say we want to use it for a road, we're toast.

So this piece right here. They just have to pay their market value. Because the road steps up here. Yeah.

So, I mean, if they, if they wanted to, I'm not saying that they do, they would have a legal avenue to connect the roads. Because if we were not cooperative and they could just say, you know what, this really needs to connect. So we're going to, we're going to through eminent domain, buy up that, that property and connect the roads. So Doug would have to initiate that though.

No. Yeah. I'm not saying that they do that. I'm saying they created a road.

I think while it may create a roadblock, it doesn't, doesn't stop them from. I think Portis process is going to go through it. Probably should. I think so too.

The reality is we're going to have to mitigate the trap pile they left for us there to help with the kids. But Silver Lake, we can't mitigate that. It literally is. So, I mean, just argue that you hit your case and you negotiate it.

But if they say absolutely there has to be connectivity of those roads, they have a legal avenue to make it out. And so the flip side of that is, is it's that portion of their city develops and you get that mid-valley expressway coming in and the ascension of the mountain. You're going to want that connectivity from the Eagle Mountain side anyway. So we can get out of there.

Like I would take mid-valley out. I hear what you're saying, but I think it's going to facilitate. I think the school is going to go there regardless of what we do or say. I'm just going to say it that way.

And so we can stand in the way and we can pitch a pit. Or we can come in as collaborative partners and say, there's some things about it we're highly concerned about, but we're going to support you in this decision. But we need your help to work through this so that we get that mid-valley expressway, which we're not, you're not required to let come through your city. We need to be planning for that.

We need you to start to, we need that aligned in a way that is functional for us and that you and your property owners can live in. I think that's how you get better. I don't think that road is under contention right now. We're having two separate conversations.

But it could be. I mean, if you start, if you start to spin the wind. Brent, this is the same conversation as Fairport Road connected to Cedar Drive. You understand that, right?

I do understand that. And we're not talking 14 people. We're talking about thousands of people that are impacted by this. I don't think you're going to keep those connections from happening either way, Rich.

That's what I'm trying to say. That's what Mark was just told us. You know what's interesting too, though? So like if you were to go a little bit more north on this, and I don't know if you lived here when this happened or not, Rich, but like Silver Lake, Pony Express didn't even go all the way down to West Lake.

And we could have ended it there because certainly there's homes right there. But can you imagine where we'd be without that connection? We just had to make a bigger road and mitigate the concerns. I don't disagree with that.

That road should be a major road. And so should Golden Eagle. We've been impacted by bad decisions that have not created safety things. And I just, I guess for me, I look at this and go, why are we just throwing our hands in the air and saying, oh, let's let them do it.

Because we're not just talking about roads going through that are undesirable. We're talking about pedestrians at a level that is unsafe that we cannot change. The schools will not go away. They're going to be there forever.

I don't think anybody here is doing what you were suggesting that they're doing. Throwing your hands in the air and saying, let's do it. You just said that. That's not what I said.

What I'm talking about is the annexation letter. Do we write a letter of support or not? I told you it's immaterial for me. But I don't see any benefit in withholding it.

That's a separate conversation. We were just talking about the road. Well, the roads are going to come later if and when they annex this. That's what we're talking about.

And then you start to see a plan. But we have zero, we're going to have zero ability to make a decision about that. I think there's a lot of room for influence as we exercise our influence with the council members from Saratoga Springs and have these collaborative conversations with them. That's how I see it.

Maybe can I ask a slightly different question? How important is it that we make a statement about this land use at this time? That's the question I asked at the beginning. What difference does it make if we do or not?

If we do, it builds goodwill. If we don't, it doesn't net us anything. We could certainly just say our attorney's opinion is that we don't need a letter. I think so too.

That's kind of where I'm at. And I don't think that means we throw our hands up in the air and say we're done. We're done having these conversations with our set of quote of spring's allies. I think it's going to necessitate that we arm wrestle pretty firmly with them and encourage their cooperation.

Can we get it or not? I don't know. But we could make a statement and say that's our intention, whether it ends up bearing any fruit. Who knows?

But no one can say, well, you didn't say anything. I'd be happy to draft a letter and then whatever you, if you want me to send it out and have you all review it or have the mayor talk to you about it. It would include, based on the conversation, I think it would say that we don't plan on protesting. However, we have serious concerns and we believe Saratoga Springs city council and mayor will be good partners in working with us as we plan our roadways and transportation to protect the, our neighborhoods and our school children there for safety as much as possible.

I think we need to put something that says we're acting out of goodwill because of their assurances that they have the same priorities for this line. I like that. I mean, the reality of this is it needs to be said. And if they back out on it, they back out on it.

But I think that that's, that needs to be said. They have said that this is how they support that. So let's at least hold them to it in a letter. Rich, is there anything else that you, I mean, you're -- No, I'm just, I'm not, my cackles are up and I'm trying to get them back down.

But that road, it means everything because of people. And I don't give a tube flutes about it being anything other than I know the people who are walking through the kids from my neighborhood. And I'm not talking about preserving wildlife with this one. I'm not talking about impacting somebody's driveway with this.

That's not this conversation. This conversation is that there are children that are walking on these streets. And that's the hill I will die on. I respect that.

But I think what, you know, what -- you can die all you want. If they annex it, they're going to do whatever they want. Well, don't underestimate the power of silver. I'm going to tell you.

Do you think Cedar Pass is in it until you get that lower section of Silver Lake? The thing is, is that's one of the reasons why we should write -- Steve knows what I'm talking about. That's one of the reasons why I think we should write the letter, so that we can continue to build that relationship and build goodwill with the council there and help them see why we can't have that. We should do everything in our power to deter at least Silver Lake Parkway from the one.

The other one, it has to probably go through. The Silver Lake Parkway, like there's a school right on the corner there. You cannot mitigate that. Well, and there's a school -- And it's a roundabout, by the way.

Right. So they are crossing it on both sides. I know. It's a horrible, horrible thing.

I think what we do is we work to continue building that relationship with them and help them see why it's so important. Because we have no power there, but relationship we can do. So that's why I think we do need the letter. Wait, Jared's on the iPhone.

Should we ask Jared? No, it'll be on the iPhone. You already have three. I know.

Okay, thanks. We'll fully kill it. Scortion. I'll draft you later.

Something? We don't want to be good partners. I think it's important for that to be said, but we have other concerns that are part of this that we're being leveraged to make a decision that needs to happen for the betterment of people while also leveraging a bad decision at the same time. Yeah.

One thing that I do want to ask staff and council and mayor to think about is we lost this annexation. Are there any others that we need to start aggressively working on for other parts of the city? South, west, whatever? I believe there are.

There are. And that's, to me, that should be on our list of things to do so we don't find ourselves in the same situation then. Well, again, we can't initiate annexation ourselves, right? The city can?

Yeah. Then absolutely we should. I think this is all driven by their rules. Yeah.

You have to be able to get it. Yeah, you have to service it. So it's like way out and there's no way you'll be able to service the land. All the land that's on that weird island on the U.S.

Boulevard, that's part of our annexation plan, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Our annexation plan is huge.

It's huge. I know. It's much easier to annex if we get the land that's on board. So we lost this battle.

Yeah. But what you want to be careful with is you can't. I think it makes a great big part. Now you're required to get the utilities out that you'll be able to service it.

But you also can charge impact fees for whoever is on that spot, right? Well, yeah. Well, kind of, sort of. I think the one thing that we want to be careful of is we're 50 square miles.

With annexing it, it needs to be very specific purposes. Well, hence the conversation. We're not doing it just to get more land. But I'm saying if there's a strategic piece.

We need to control adjustment. Right. So probably the annexation committee and the power generation committee are probably the most important ones at this point for us. Yeah.

Externally for sure. Yeah. So yeah, I would love to have an annexation conversation. But I think we spent our...

You know what? All of the committees that we came up with and talked about align under at least one of our strategic goals. And part of me wonders if the six committees are those. And then like...

Maybe. Because those are the things that, like, that we don't have to have 40 committees. Yeah. Okay.

So we'll go ahead and conclude this at 103. And... So are we turned off? No, wait.

Yes.