Transcript — Eagle Mountain City Council, 14 November 2024

Okay. Well, we'll go ahead and get this meeting started. Welcome everyone. Thank you for being here.

I have 8:20 a.m. November 14th, 2024. The City Council Strategic Planning Conference. So we have a full day and whatever we don't get to, if we run over on something today, we can always move it to tomorrow.

So everyone knows staff will be somewhat split. There's staff training going on today, so some will do that safety training in the morning and others will do safety training in the afternoon. Just kind of set the tone. So Strategic Planning Conference.

I just looked up just to refresh my memory on the definition of strategic. My phone will let me pull it out. So, yeah. The lecture says, "Strategies, the science and art of employing the political, economic, psychological, and military forces of an age for group of nations to afford the maximum support to adopt policies in peace or war." So, even though there might be some things that will take the opportunity to dive deep into the mostly this is going to be a very high-level approach to work toward those those details.

So, let's go ahead and get started with our agenda items. So, Brad has a presentation on OpenRove. So, hopefully this is a software that will move us forward and help us function more efficiently, clear. So, Brad, we'll go ahead and turn that time over to you.

Okay. Thank you, Mayor. Just to give some history on this. I think it's been almost a year ago.

I think staff came and kind of solicited counsel for some software management or some management software related to permitting and licensing for planning and then also for asset management down in the public works building. It's been awesome to work on this project. It's taken a lot of time and we feel like we're to a point where we're going to work on this project. It's been awesome to work on this project.

It's taken a lot of time and we feel like we're to a point where we're going to work on this project. It's been awesome to work on this project. It's been awesome to work on this project. It's taken a lot of time and we feel like we're We're to a point where we can kind of showcase a few areas where this is being utilized and kind of where I guess the future of utilizing this software will go.

So first of all, before we could really do anything with this software, we had to spend a lot of time gathering content, essentially. GIS files, equipment, getting all of our staff input. So first off here in the software, I'm going to kind of show you here's kind of a running list of all of our equipment. All of our equipment that we have down in the public works building along with all of the vehicles that we run out of the public works building as well.

So we're going to get all that information in there. Yes. I mean, that is the intent long term. We don't have that all that information in there yet.

We've talked about adding fields on is a purchase is at least when are those when was the when was the purchase when. When is this lease expire with all the equipment as well. And then we're going to run out of the materials that we're going to run out of the materials that we're going to have to run out of the materials that we're going to have to run out of the materials that we're going to run out of the materials that we're going to run out of the materials that we're going to run out of the materials that we're going to run out of the materials that we're going to run out of the materials that we're going to run out of the materials that we're going to run out of the materials. A maintenance schedule on each piece of equipment that's unique to that piece of equipment.

You just have to go in and set the parameters for it and what you're going to do. It seems like that'd be really helpful, especially when you're trying to determine what your assets are and what your turnover is going to be to be able to plan. For sure. For sure.

For sure. So our intent would be any time we bring any piece of equipment into public works, we're going to add it in this view. We're going to make sure that we're tracking it and so that we have maintenance schedules on it. And also it's so that we can, there's a way that we can capture rates on this equipment.

And so all of this equipment is set up with a, it has an equipment classification code. And the equipment classification code that we used is based off the FEMA rates. And so that's all the FEMA rates per hour. So as this equipment's being used out in the field, we can capture those costs of that equipment that we're using out in the field.

And what we've told our staff is if it's out on site and you're working on a project, you need to input that the hours for that on site, whether that's that, that trailer, that skid steer, that truck, it's in use. You can't use it for anything else if it's just on that site. So to capture all those costs. Is this something that requires staff reporting on a daily basis?

Yes. Yes. I'll, I'll get to the kind of the bigger picture here in a minute. Hopefully.

And I'll kind of show you, I'm trying to start in the background to kind of give you the, the pretense of like what's built into it so that I can show you the analytics and the numbers. So, but so the other thing is we went in and we put it in all of our staff as well. Right. So all of our public works staff that's working down there, that's going to be working in the software is going to facilitate a role in doing anything that we do out in the field.

As far as maintenance repairs, anything, they're going to have a unique user ID in the system. We, what we use for that is we also set their wage rate in there. We didn't use their exact wage rate because we didn't want that to get too crazy and people worrying about what so-and-so makes per hour. So we made a, our own decision that we were going to utilize the midpoint of the pay bands.

And we just use that midpoint depending on your job classification to try to capture that cost as close as we could. So we've gone in, we've set that up for all of our public works employees. So as staff comes and goes in this system, the way it works is we will never, once, once an individual's in here and they have hours or work time that's logged against their name, we will never, we will never delete them out of the system. We will only make them inactive because if we delete them out of the system, then anything that's related to their, any hours that they've worked on any services or anything will be deleted with it.

So this will always be a running queue of all the hours. 20 years from now, I don't know if you get to a point where you start scrubbing some of those hours out. I don't know what that looks like. I probably won't be here at that point.

So somebody else will have to make that determination, but trying to set it up the best way possible. So moving along, going to the assets, I just tried to pick some assets that we have been utilizing and we've been doing work out in the field so I can kind of showcase. Just quickly, I'll bounce over to this one. This is our test site.

There's about 60 assets that we have classified in the software right now. Some of them may only have one to six items, six assets underneath those categories. But some of those are because they're very unique to like the wastewater treatment plant or to a well, and we only have five or six of them. Whereas on like the sewer system, which I'm going to kind of highlight mostly today, we're showing in our grid right now that there are 4,817 segments of pipe that we've identified in our city.

And what you can think of a segment as is essentially between manhole to manhole, right, is a segment. So your segments might be 50 feet or your segments might be 400 feet. They're all going to vary. And so what that's identifying is that's a linear line.

There's 4,817 linear segments in the city that we're currently tracking. It's probably missing some. Like we're still scrubbing data as we go through this. We're still trying to make sure that it's correct.

Pipe sizes are right. I'm trying to get all that information correct in the ages of them as well. So, yes. Well, it's not in the system yet.

What we're going to do is what we decided on that is we're going to create a layer that essentially is when the final plat was recorded. And then we'll go back to that year installed. And then that will be the install date. And then we'll work from that point to understand how old that system is in that area.

So, yeah, we haven't done it yet. But, yes, that's how we will achieve that. That probably will be helpful, huh? Oh, yeah.

Yeah. Very helpful. And then also, I turned on a layer here as well that's regarding like sewer manholes. So, we're showing that there's 4,291 manholes.

Once again, this could change a little bit. It's probably going to go up. We're probably missing some just because of the amount of growth and everything that we have. So, as I zoom in, you can kind of see the grid and how it's laid out, how they connect.

Let me see if I can zoom way in. I don't know if everyone can see my pointer here. But essentially, here's a manhole, here's a manhole. And then this red line is what that segment of pipe is.

So, if I click on this segment of pipe, I can view it. I can go down to the details. I have a detailed list that we can add elevations, all these things in, which we will. We're still working on getting that data.

But you can see that this is an 8-inch sewer line. And it's running about 376 feet between manhole to manhole. And that's looking specifically at that section of pipe. Or I can click in to this manhole.

And in this manhole, view it. And eventually, it'll have the size, the original install date. If we ever have to replace it, then it'll have a new install date. You'll retire the old whatever was there.

So, this just basically ends up becoming like a big, I call it like a big filing cabinet almost. Like, so anytime you're doing work on that specific manhole or that specific segment of pipe, then you're cataloging what's happening in the field. If you're entering that pipe, you're putting a sleeve in it, or you have a water break. Or this is a sewer main.

So, if it was a water main, does the saddle blow off the pipe and we have to replace the saddle? So then we'll know which saddles have been changed from the original installs when these, or where the sleeves are at in case there's a leak. And is it the saddle that's leaking, or is it that fix that we did five years ago, right? So we can kind of troubleshoot.

So, if you look at this system, like I said, this is focusing mainly on sewer. If you go up to, by Unity Pass, you can see right here that this, like, Ochre Mountain is the break on where everything from this point south is what comes back to our sewer treatment plant in the valley. So, everything that's on the other side of that break is what pumps up and goes back into the ranches and goes to the TSSD. And I'll kind of zoom out.

So you can start to see how many manholes and how big that system really is in scale and what we're dealing with. And just keep in mind, this is only one of our major utilities. So, from this, this is where we can go in and we can say, hey, in this subdivision, we feel like we're having some issues with the way that the sewage is pumping out of the system, right? And so that's where we end up with this work portal.

And so in this work portal, I've done the same thing. I've just, I've taken it out to just where it's only wastewater or sewer tickets that are in. So Brody went in and said, hey, in these areas, I want to create a work order that we're going to go in to this subdivision and pioneer. We're going to inspect all the manholes and we're going to jet all these sewer lines.

So he, we, he created a task. He creates the task. He assigns it to his staff members. And what happens is that it pushes it to their user IDs and it pops up on a list and it says, this is my task for the day.

So I need to, I need to go out and I need to go jet this line and we need to take care of these inspections. And you can set those up so that they can go to whoever. Um, you can send them to labor groups, individuals. There's, there's a lot of different ways that you can do it.

Um, so get set up as a work order. And then from the work order, then they, they turn each one of those from the work order into what they call a task. So of those work orders, since this has been since, uh, probably the end of may mainly of, of those work orders that Brody created in regards to the sewer line. It's showing that they've gone through and they've jetted 564 segments of sewer main.

And there's 50 outstanding segments that still need to be completed in the same time. They've also gone out and they've completed 629 manhole inspection. And there's 65 inspections that are less left on those work orders. So it's a running tally of all of, all of the work that's going on in that, in that system.

And so we can track it and we can, um, keep eyes on it. Um, with that, um, I'm just going to show another one here, cause then I'm going to move on to the next tab, but utility locates was a big one too. So when we were getting utility locates, Trevor was essentially getting on their site. He would go in daily.

He would print off a sheet and then he would have to go to every single site, um, where blue stakes need to be. And he'd have to paint it because we didn't have a way to basically talk back to 811 and push the ticket information back. So now what we've, what we've done is we've gone into the system. We've worked with 811.

So a resident or a contractor developer, they call in a blue stake ticket. They generate the blue stake ticket. It automates, it pushes it to us. We get the refile from the ticket.

And as those tickets come in, then it drops in this queue for our blue stakers. That is utility locates plan. So right now we have 13 blue stake tickets that are outstanding in the city is all since May. They've completed 6,364 blue stake tickets.

6,364 blue stake tickets that have been called in. So that's, it's just, that's going to come with the growth and everything, right? Is there a ribbon that comes with that? No, but there will be.

Since May. Yeah. At the end of May. Like a lot of this, we started tracking heavily end of May.

Are those individual blue stakes tickets? So like if there's three utilities in that area, does it count three of the six? No, no, no. One just one ticket.

That's area. So it's area. So anything that's encompassed in that ticket gets notified. So that's kind of a fun fact to get to our lobbyists.

So when people complain and say Eagle Mountain's not doing enough. Well, we have 6,364 blue stakes requests. Since May. Yeah.

So, so I just, I wanted to highlight that one because we feel like that's been a really big win. So now what they do because of. How many people are doing that 6,000? We only have two.

So one's been doing it. One. Trevor's been doing it. We moved Trevor to a full time inspector.

Can we, can we keep. This has been huge for him and all. Like. Yeah.

This has helped a ton. Yeah. 6,000. One guy doing 6,000.

Maybe five or six a day. That's 16 a day. Yeah. Every day of the week.

He can do it just depending on what they are. He could, he could do 30 in a day some days, but if it's a, if it's a ticket, that's like, Hey, this is a blanket ticket and I need to stake all the way down. Tony. Yeah.

That could be like one day for one side. Right? So they just take them in the order that they come in and they try to meet the deadlines that two days. Do we have enough people for this?

Or is that one person to see two? So right now it feels like it's functioning. We need to monitor it. We need to really see and make sure.

Um, I think we're still in an assessment. Should we ask him? Maybe that's the person we should ask. Do we need another one of you?

So I, we just hired, um, I guess my question is. He just got some help. So he's got the, he's gotten the mistakes person that's now full time. Trevor's designated a public works inspector, but he still helps Todd.

So what, what will trigger it for me to say that we need more help is if they go out and Todd's blue staking. And then all of a sudden Trevor's happened to help blue stake, then we, we can't do that. Like we need Trevor to inspect. Yeah.

Not the blue staking. Those tickets have to be done within. Two days. So if we know.

They've actually extended it. They've changed the rule. Oh is it? It's, it's, it's like, uh, five days or four days now.

They, they recently just changed it. It's no longer a 48 hour. But the key is if we knew we were shorthanded is if we're not meeting that deadline. Yeah.

But some, some of the things helped him with this too, is some of these tickets come in that he can see map that are on no blue stake. He doesn't have to even go on site and he can clear the ticket without even going on site and clearing the ticket. So this has been huge. It's been a time saver for him.

So if it wasn't generated through the system and it couldn't automate, he, he has to go out to the site, even if there's nothing there and he has to write that it's clear on the site. But if it's clear and there's no conflict, he doesn't have to go out and paint that site because we don't have any utilities on it. He can generate it through the ticket. It pushes the ticket clear back into the 811.

The person that calls in the ticket gets the response. So it's, it's an automation. It's an automation all the way through and all the way back. So I, I feel like that was a huge one to show.

Um, so now just moving along quick, there's like two other things I just want to cover quick. There's a dashboard. Um, so in this dashboard, I went in and I filtered, um, for sewer main miles right now. Can't quote us on this because we're still querying to make sure that it's as accurate as we can be.

But we're showing that there's about just under 187 miles of sewer main in the city. Um, just like we showed on that other tab, there was 564 tasks or segments of pipe that were jetted. Right. Um, of that 564 segments of pipe that equates to almost 25 miles of pipe in the ground and the total cost of equipment and manpower that we spent to do that jetting was $25,000.

Since May. So are we, is there some sort of comparison going on in some department or something to make sure that the money that we're receiving for different projects is actually covering the cost of the things that need to be done. Say that again. With like, how much did you say that was?

$25,084. And we know that that's going to cost, is that just our basic maintenance, but that's not an impact fee type of a thing where someone's coming in? No. This would all be a maintenance cost.

So it all be need to make sure that we're collecting these costs in our, in our fees or our rates. Right. That's basically what I was asking. Yeah.

But Brad, that represents, and this was since May. Yeah. So since May, we've done approximately one eighth of the system is what I'm looking at. Yeah.

Maybe slightly more, which is pretty good. Yeah. So, and then, like I said, in the same timeframe, here's the 629 manhole inspections that took place. They obviously don't take as long.

You're not using back trucks. You're just pulling lids and you're assessing it and you're doing the inspection and filling out the form in the system so that we have it forever. And of those inspections or it's 2,563 is the total cost that that's between vehicles and labor hours to go do that. And then of those 629 inspections, I'm showing that there's 12 manholes that were identified that it's like, Hey, there's something maybe not critical here, but there's something here that we need to watch.

So it flags those so that we know that these are problematic manholes so we can keep better tabs on them. Everything else just kind of runs through the queue. Of those 629, we came out with, Hey, there's in this manhole, there's debris up on the bench or the trough or whatever. We need to go in and we need to wash this manhole down so it's clean, so they don't get any backups or anything, right?

So you identify these through an inspection and then what we do is we can turn around from these inspections and we say, Hey, here's six tasks now. Here's six manholes that you guys need to go wash down. So it's like, it's like a work. It's a workflow, right?

So I wanted to show that. And then with the manhole inspections, the last thing I want to cover is how I think this is going to even benefit us greater into the future is. So like with a manhole inspection, you go out and you complete a manhole inspection on a specific date, right? So I go out and I complete it.

Let's say I go do 30 manhole inspections today. That's part of my job requirement. So it's going to have a date stamp today that I completed those inspections. What we can do in the system is in the background, they have what is like a preventative maintenance plan.

So as part of this preventative maintenance plan, I can go in and say, Hey, I need this sewer and inspection plan, sewer manhole inspection plan. And it's going to have a trigger. And the trigger is, I need to inspect this manhole annually. So we need to inspect every manhole every year, once a year.

So every one year after the previous inspect was completed since May 1st, 2024, it's going to trigger a task to go out and do an inspection. So what happens today is all of them that don't have an inspection because it's a brand new system, anything that has a no read in it or no date, it'll just populate a task. So like our queue will be full of inspections that have to be completed. But once we get going and we start getting on a recurring schedule, and we have some dates in there, you'll almost be doing those same manholes every year about that same time.

What do you think the projected rate is? How many years is it going to take us to complete the first phase and work into a second phase? Because based on what you're showing us, it looks like about a four year cycle. Have you guys looked at that?

Not yet. The analytics will show us. I'm just wondering when you look at that, if that's often enough, and if it's not, the only way to shorten that up is to dedicate additional resources. Exactly.

And that's what's going to help us with FTEs moving forward. As much information as we can pump out of this grid to show actual work hours on what we have to have to be in compliance with state standards, any of those things, like with these inspection on these manholes, we have to meet those criteria. We'll talk about that another day. Hey, I'm not even talking about allocating new funds, but these are manholes we're already buying and we're already working on that art stuff.

I know there's a little design work or whatever, but I don't know why we're not already doing that one. That's where my school is. Well, it just got passed last week, so give it some time. We actually talked about it yesterday somewhere.

So when can I expect to see that? That's not the biggest priority for the whole council. So just to kind of this preventative maintenance plan is going to be huge for us in a couple different ways because it's not just a time factor. We don't have it in our go live site yet.

But what we do have is we've been working with them on all of our data equipment. So all of all of our information on our whales that have gallon flow or run hours assigned to them. We can take those like so say on a pump in a well, we can say every 200 hours since the last time the oil has been changed in this pump, we need to change the oil. And it'll just automatically generate that like someone's not having to keep tabs on it.

You just set up that preventative maintenance plan. It automates it. So it's like, hey, we did this June 30, 2024. Then we do it September 30, 2024.

And then it's going to project and say, you probably are going to do this again in January 30, 2024, whatever, right? Whatever that based on that usage consumption, how much that pumps running. Kind of like that maintenance light that comes on on my wife's Honda pilot so that she doesn't have to, when that oil is supposed to be changed. Yeah.

There's a sticker on it. You just put it right on the top. She doesn't watch the three or 5,000 miles. She just says, oh, it needs to be done.

She does. How long did you drive? She don't know. So I guess the biggest point that I think that I want to make with this is what's going to make this huge is the automation component of it.

And the automation component is that we don't have to have staff sitting in the office, looking at maps, trying to find things. It's already like you just set it up like it goes to this labor group and our labor groups will be able to be able to see it. So, I mean, if they're like, hey, like I haven't seen that for a while, they can go into the asset and they can look at it and it'll say, oh, well, that's projected to take place around this date. Once it hits the parameters of it, then it becomes a planned task.

And then it's like, no, you have to go do this now. And then once it's completed, then it triggers off that next run hour cycle, the next gallons, the next, the next one year from now, like you set those parameters, but it's trying to make this automated so that we have a workflow. And our, I think what we've talked about is we would love it if we can get there one of these days and it's going to still take some time as we build this out. But we would love it if our staff can come in and they can just look and it's like, hey, here's some tasks of everything we need to do today.

Or even on their phone. It is on their phone. So that's how they're doing the blue stick. Greg, you may have said this over medication.

But is there something, you know, let's say we have a break of line somewhere that will trigger back to the information system and send that back out to the people who are looking for updates when the water's going to come back on, how long it's going to take, that kind of payment? So I think it does potentially have that capability. We're not there yet. That's kind of in the, they call it this request portal.

So there is something there. I can't speak to it heavily because we haven't even been able to explore that. So what are, oh, sorry. What are the different areas that we're using this in besides water and sewer?

So water, sewer, signs. So all of our street signs, we've been utilizing it. Street lights too. Located street lights are in.

There's a lot of this that needs a lot of work, right? We'll have pavement in there, pavement markings. We're scrubbing this data as it goes in to make sure that it's as complete as possible. It's a lot of work.

So this is just asset though. This doesn't tie into the control of the lights also, right? No. So, sorry.

Go ahead. I have a couple questions. So just for context, when did you get the software? And then how much time, say, did you get a sense of man hours or how many weeks or months it took to get it going to where it becomes useful to you?

Because obviously it sounds like you're still on. It's ongoing, right? It's always going to be ongoing, especially as you add new units to it. Ken, what was the, when you got it, how long did it take it to start being useful to you in terms of getting information into it and training?

We started heavily, like they did like a immediate, like data finding December last year. And we started working with them heavily in January. And we had stuff up kind of rolling by, I'd say the 1st of May. And then a lot of it went, we had a go live kind of the end of May, where we started working on these assets and tracking.

One thing I will say with the software is there has been, like, weeks where I've spent, like, my whole time working on it. So, Brad, that was going to be one of my questions. It was exactly that. It's who's passed with all of this data input?

Because it's not like you guys don't have anything else to do. Yeah. So, I'm just wondering if, if we don't need, like, someone that is the point person, that that's their job and that's what they do. Because hearing that it's taking a week of your time, I don't know that that's beneficial because the outcomes for the engine.

So, long term. Long term it will be. It won't be. I, what we're trying, what we're trying to achieve is there, there should be a way between permitting and licensing portal, a development comes in.

We do our, our planning reviews. It goes through the planning process, right? Then we sign off on that planning process. Then there's a development process that happens.

This development comes in. These certain things happen through the development process. We start to get ready to close out because when something's in a development process, that's not an asset that we're maintaining yet. We're going to receive it, but we're not maintaining it yet.

So, as that development comes online, what we got to figure out is, okay. So, this corp stop where the water connection service line connects in the road, when the engineering inspectors inspect that, are they going to shoot those in? Right? Or do we need our GIS staff to go out and do they need to go shoot the manhole is to get where all the manholes are at?

And it's a times and a method because the ones that are going to be super critical are the ones that are going to get buried, right? Because you're going to probably want elevations on them. Yep. And you need to get the shots right on them as accurate as you can be.

So, that needs to become part of our processes. So, which we've been doing. I mean, that's essentially why this has been building out. Can I just make a comment to tell what Brett was saying also, though?

I think, and I don't, if I'm speaking out of terms and telling this, I think what I'm hearing him say is the expectation, Brett, is not that you are going to have to do this. We want it to be done, or Matt, frankly. If you need help, don't get buried and underwater and you guys are doing the work yourself to get it done. Ask so that we can pay for somebody coming to do it.

If it's a consultant group that can get it done in a month, so we're up and going instead of waiting for it to be nine months or 18 months from now, please ask. Because the reality is we want to get these things done so it's a benefit to you, but so that it also isn't pulling away from the other things that you need to be doing with your responsibilities. That's kind of where I was going to. Like, I feel like even if we have to hire a data entry contractor for six months to just plow through everything, you're still going to have to tell them what to do, but just basic entry and stuff.

Because I would really like to see this also used for parks at some point. It's coming. So every park strip. And because you said something about automations with blue stakes, correct?

So it does something with their system. It would be really nice if you or Zach could go in and pull a report and be like, these are the things that were, you know, required of whatever company we're using for our maintenance for park stuff. And you could do spot checks too. You could go doing some quality stuff.

And I think we could do that even with our sewer and water people. If there's a recurring like, oh, this one didn't get done well. You know, like it helps you just from a human resources standpoint. Yeah.

So to that point, if you're planning to add, so we have water and sewer we're dealing with right now. We've already added parks. We're going to add parks. That's in phase two.

That's phase two. Okay. You're doing streets of that as well. It sounds to me like you're going to have somebody that's needed for a long time.

That's what I, that's what I, I think that could be because a lot of development, a lot of new stuff that we're adding. Why not an intern for four or five months each summer? So that's, that's a similar, I, I, I hear you all. We're going to need, we're going to need the help.

I think what we're trying to figure out is the best way to utilize interns. Yeah. Well, me or people who want to work well, their kids are at school and they're just doing data entry. I mean, and there's a lot of navigation at the front end, right?

This software was very open ended, very robust. And it's kind of like build it to your use, which is on the front end. Trying to figure out how. Yeah.

And it's kind of hard to just hand that to someone. Too many details. So like for instance, I'll give you like, so you might have an engine engineering inspector that goes out and shoots the corp stop or a valve or a water fitting, right? Because those are in the trench and they're inspecting them.

But to get the distance between that fitting and the next fitting in that segment of pipe, you're not going to walk out through the field and walk down that with the story pole to get that shot in a line. They're going to, they need to make sure those are accurate points. And then our GIS department's going to go in and say, Hey, I need to connect this line from this point to this point. So it's, it's more of like processing, like how you're going to get all those deliverables so that you've got all the information at the end.

And that's why you're going to have all that information through inputting. Well, it should get implemented in the process. Okay. And that's what I'm saying through the workflow as development goes on, you shoot those, shoot those shots in through engineering inspections.

Before, before those close out, we need to have a workflow that's like, Hey GIS, you need to make sure that all these water mains are drawn. All these sewer mains are drawn, like, and then basically that's going to be part of the normal job. Yes. So that's everything that's new going forward.

How do we catch everything else up? Um, yeah, I think that's kind of where we're all going. How do we help? I don't have a good, I don't have a good answer today.

We're going to rotate through the council members and we'll all have to do some data. We do have someone on the water staff who is updating old infrastructure and then meeting with GIS to make sure that data is being put in and correct. We are playing catch up. What about power?

I don't like power. So I'm water waste water. Yeah, because obviously we used to have our own power and there are power lines all over our area. And I realized it's Rocky Mountain, but is it going to be, I think it's still useful to know where it's at when we're doing our stuff.

It might be something that we could reach out to Rocky Mountain Power and see if they'd be willing to do it. They're always super willing. They should. Possibly.

Yeah. It's helpful when you're digging it, right? Of course. That's what I was thinking about when they...

If they have a GIS file, it can integrate. As long as they have a GIS layer that we can pull in. Does that help work to us? Yeah.

I mean, I think the more information that you have, the better. If they have one, it's just a matter of... Will they share it? Yeah.

How often do they update it? Is it not automated update? Yeah. All the things we work on.

I can imagine that they wouldn't want you to know so you're not hitting their lines. That's what you know what's for, but that's still a part. Yeah. I have a general idea of where it is when we're doing a road project if we didn't know it.

So, just kind of going back, I hear you, council members. I appreciate the support. We're going to ask for some staff. Good.

But we don't want to just blanket say, hey, we need four people to do this. Like, we want to be strategic in how we're going to utilize the staff to make sure that it's beneficial for the city and that we're doing it the right way, whether that's the contract or whatnot. This is only the first phase of implementation. As soon as we close out the SCADA stuff, we're going to move to phase two.

And phase two is parks. It's going to be our facilities. So, we're going to work with Jeff. Strong drains part of that.

All of our sidewalks, trails, all of those things will go in. Alec with our trees will go in there. So, as he does work, same thing. Just like we're doing, every tree will become an asset.

All the work that's done on that tree, like we'll catalog that work on that tree. We plant a tree. It needs to be cataloged in the system, right? We're trying to get everything to go into the system.

That's a lot of work. This is going to be our working system moving forward. So... It'll be worth it though.

Does it feel like it's going to be worth it? Yes. Everyone that has been a part of it, it has been... I'm not going to say it hasn't been painful because it has been painful days.

But everyone that's worked closely with it or it's been utilizing it, sees how valuable it's going to be and what it's going to give us into the future. I'm just talking about the fact that you don't have to go to every single visit on a blue station. But you can look on there and go, there's no power here. There's no setting clear.

You just saved a ton of man-hours and fuel. You know, I just, I think there's going to be a lot of benefit pretty much for all of your apartments. So, that's my presentation. I don't know if there's any other further questions.

I just want to say bravo. Thank you. I would really love it if we could tell the story of the efficiencies our city's putting into place to save our taxpayers' dollars, to let them know, like, we've got our eye on this kind of a thing. Like, I even feel like, well, it's really to the mayor, too, because he's the one that has to, like, save gold.

Right. But I... We should be telling the story. Right.

And it also helps build trust, to say, we know that these are things that you're probably worried about, but we've got you covered. We're doing X, Y, Z to make sure that it's taken care of. Okay. I think that would do a lot to build trust in our residents.

I also think that there is a reporting mechanism that comes out of this, too. No, for sure. But we don't know what that reporting mechanism is yet, because we don't have enough years of data. Yeah.

So once we start collecting year one and then we get into year two, like, then we're going to be able to develop some reporting rubrics to spit out some numbers that probably help with budgeting and making us more efficient and some of those things. Well, even, like, an impact fee analysis. Think about, like, all that we have to do when we try to change impact fees and get that information. If somebody can test it, we can be, like, 6,364.

You know, like, we can help explain all the things that we're doing with those numbers. Go ahead. Don't go ahead. I mean, my understanding is that Salt Lake City is the only other city in Utah that has implemented this OpenGov software in this way.

So I've talked with OpenGov. They have, I think, three or four other clients in Utah now. And I've received phone calls from a couple other entities that are looking, and they ask for an opinion. But when are we second behind Salt Lake City?

Yeah. I think that's the point I want to make, is that we're looking for innovative ways to approach some of the problems that exist, right, in just managing the city of this size. And we went and we met with Salt Lake City, and they had a pretty big working group. There was about seven or eight people from Salt Lake, from parks.

None of it was utilities. It was all engineering and streets and parks. Are we having conversations with them so we're not duplicating mistakes? Yes.

Oh, yeah. That's good. Because I think that's important to have peers to be able to say, "What don't we know that we should know so we're not making the same mistake or wasting the same amount of time?" That would be a helpful conversation. And we talked to them about that, and we've had discussions with them because it's exactly that.

And they want to become partners so that we can run that by each other, especially since we're using the same thing. So just another component of that too, though, is Salt Lake City has been using Cartograph for like 20 years. They've been using that basically as a file server. They weren't doing like workflow out of it.

They've only been doing workflow out of it for like two years, so it's pretty new to them as far as tracking like the work stuff that's going out of it. They're just doing a list of what they own. Yeah. So anybody we can get FaceTime with, yeah, we're going to take that FaceTiming to do that.

I just wanted to end with, you know, it's obviously us three spent a lot of time, but we have a lot of staff, our supervisors and our leads that have sat in meetings. So we have some office help, like Debany, she's been really great at helping in the background. We're trying to train as many people as we can, because this needs to be the software that we're going to use in the future. Like it has to implement, we have to use it, everything's going to go in this.

Like that's our plan, that's our goal. We'll keep updating as we move forward, but it's been a good group effort. So thanks for your time. Thank you, Brad.

I'd like to take this time also to thank Chamber of Commerce for hosting this conference. So thank you. And now we will have a status update of goals and objectives by Cliff. Thank you.

And please, if you need to take a break, just take it when you need to take a break. Cliff, it says 60 minutes, I'm holding you to it. We're ahead of schedule. So I would say to you, I was worried two days ago that we wouldn't have enough for you, and then we started putting it into the tunnel.

Okay, we're going to be busy today. If we take 30 or 60, it's going to be partly because of you. So... No, that 60 is yours.

We need another 60. Okay, I'm not going to read all this to you, but just a reminder that in 2022, when the council set up strategic goals, one of the things that we looked at was some values, core values, as we operate the city, administer the city. This is the strategic vision that the council adopted and the six strategic goals that you picked. And from that, based on the direction that the council that they gave us, staff went in and they looked at these strategic goals.

And the question really was boiled down to really one thing, and that is, what can we as staff do to help advance the city in facilitating these goals? So we came up with six strategies. Staff came up with 37 objectives and 111 actions that went with those 37 objectives. These are just five.

If... Tyler and I had a conversation recently, and we were talking about, as we go into the budget year, we go into strategic planning, what if we had a year of, right? A year of some goal that you wanted to accomplish. And while we haven't done that directly, I would tell you that based on what you've got here, this is the year of capital asset management.

There are a number of goals in there that cover those. I'm going to go back just for a second. So when we took the objectives, so you had a strategic goal. We found objectives.

We actually linked them in a different sheet that I've got. You can track these goals and actions to different of the... Or sorry, these actions and objectives. You can track them to the six strategic goals.

And on one version of this chart, I have it all, you know, by call and match them up. But a typical objective looks like this. It's to adopt asset management policies and practices to optimize the maintenance and expansion of infrastructure assets. This is one piece of it that Brad just demonstrated to you.

And that's why we wanted to show you it. The actions in this case are five. And they're assigned to different departments depending on what they are. And then here's the measure that we've got.

Now, performance measures generally, we want to get them to the point where they are measurable in terms of a statistic. Because a lot of these things are install a program, right? The goal is to get it installed and implemented and start using it, right? So we've kind of adopted goals this time where they're mostly like completion.

And you'll see that throughout the sheet that I handed out to you as council members. But going back to the idea that this is the year or this is the two years of capital asset management. These are just some of the goals. And I've got two slides of this.

One is the first three boxes here are all the same one, but they're divvied up. And so if you were to look at it and you would see, for example, develop a long-term strategy for best practices based maintenance, repair, and future investments, allocate, and resources, signed to finance. The goal here is to adopt policies and practices. Now, we know it's going to take some time.

The goal this year, and what the column doesn't show you here, is this first column here where the 10% is. This represents where we are year to date in this first fiscal year. The second column, which says 50%, this is where we expect to be at the end of the current fiscal year, so by the end of June. And by the end of two years, two fiscal years, I remember this is the first fiscal year we're actually using these as our goals and objectives, goals, objectives, and actions.

We want to be complete with this one. And so you'll see that a lot of these, by the end of FY 2026, and apparently I'm editing live, in here, the goal is to have all of these done. So then there's another one down here, implement, expand, use of GIS database. Some of these goals are actually implemented now, and they're operationally using them.

There are some you'll see that, like this question mark, we couldn't get a good sense of where we are. And partly that was because we've just had our two most senior people in the department are brand new, so they're trying to get hands on these. The next slide is also capital asset management. Create a five-year capital improvement plan in the budget.

We've already adopted a schedule for regular updates. I showed that to you a few months ago. I probably should have updated that, but we're also in the process of arranging more. Sorry, I just lost my thought.

We are working on getting more of the master plans done and updated. So that's the process we're working on. And then as far as putting it into budget, there's some efforts there. And then, of course, later today you'll hear about the long-term facility plan in terms of what are the kinds of buildings and services that you want to provide in the long-term and how do we get there.

So you'll talk about that a little bit more today. Technology is an issue. So we want to invest in smart city technology. We've already started with what you just saw from Brad.

We've got new planning software that was implemented. We opted not to ask for a demonstration on it, but we could have had a demonstration on that one as well. And one of the things I think you recognize from the questions that you asked Brad, and I'm glad you did, was the recognition that it takes a lot of it. It takes some money.

It takes time and effort. And it really does help to have somebody that helped drive in the process in the community, or sorry, in the organization. And then one of the things, the third box down, AI tools and services. We've adopted a policy.

We want to start using some AI services. In fact, at Utah City Management Association last week, Steve, myself, Tyler, Natalie, who else was there? Is that all of us? Terrence.

Terrence, sorry. There were multiple presentations on the use of AI and how it's serving cities and saving on time and resources. Now, you have to program it in and use it, but there's some really great tools out there. Imagine that you all remember EFL.

EFL was telling us that they used something called Notebook LLM, and they went and had, they took their budget document, uploaded it into it, and created a podcast using this software based on it. He reviewed it all. It told a really good story of what was being prioritized in the city budget that year, right? So there's tools that we can use.

You can use chat, I mean, a GPT-AI type thing to review things like planning documents or to review. I wrote an RFP with it, and you have to go back in and check and make sure, but it can really save us some time if we learn how to use it and implement it. So that's one of the goals this coming year. And then communications has been working on the new website and improving that.

So capital asset management technology are two of the priorities this two-year cycle to improve us as a city and help us get to your strategic goals over that time. So rebranding, I threw this up there. You can read it yourself if you'd like. It's also in the document I gave you.

Rebranding has had a significant impact for us in launching us into other things. We're working on tourism plans, and we're working on economic development plans. And so this is something that was a goal that is largely accomplished. There's a few little things left to be done, but I think you're on a two-year cycle, you're ahead of the game, right?

Let me give you a couple of stats. A little hard to track on some of these, so I went through and looked at where we are year to date, year one. Now, again, I told you that when you adopted this, the idea with these goals and actions or objectives and actions was to try and have them filled in about two years. Some of these goals earlier, if better, some of them will drag into three years, and it's always possible something becomes impossible and we have to reevaluate.

But this is kind of where we are five months into the fiscal year. Now, you saw this back in January and approved them, but to date, 24 actions of the 111 are at 100%. 75, 10 actions are somewhere around 75%. And then you can just go down the list and see where we're at.

There are six actions that weren't measured. One because it wasn't clear on how to measure it. And then there was another four or five in engineering that I haven't had a chance to really sit down with them and figure out where we're at on them. But you can see we're making progress as we as we move through these.

I have a question on that, please. So what that tells me is that we have about 40 actions that we need to make new actions, right? Because what are we going to do when it's all done is like, now what? Well, let me show you how that works.

We backlog the new actions and then replace the ones that are completed or almost completed. Let me show you that, for example. We'll go back to the example I had earlier, this one. So you'll see there's the objective, there's actions.

Some of these, there's five actions to follow. Some of these will have to be done prior to others. And so you'll have to get through them. So all we'll do is say that some of these are complete and go on.

But as we move forward in subsequent years, we should be looking at what's next. What do we need to be doing? That's my question. What's next?

Yeah. If we're finishing everything, what's next? Right. Because if you do a five-year plan in year three, you're still working on the same five-year plan.

What's the five-year plan? What's for years six and seven? Right. What's the new five-year plan?

Yeah. And if we finish early, where are we replacing the silverware? That's getting ahead, too. Yeah.

And that's the question that we staff need to do to think about and bring to you. And it's the thing that you as council need to think about and help us see. There's a lot here. And what we don't want to do is add another 111 actions if we've only completed 50.

Right? Maybe we only find another 40 or 50 to add. Right? Because we want to make progress, but we can't do everything at once.

It's something to note on that. So the whole goal of this, right, is to complete the objectives. And that objective completion helps you complete the, what, the goal, the strategic goal. Get you closer to the goal.

Yeah. And so if we're completing actions and we haven't yet completed the objective because there are still actions to go, we don't want to add more actions on just to have more to do. We want to make sure that objective is being completed. And so, but yes, before we complete the objective, we want to be planning ahead so that we can, we can add one.

So we don't have a space in between an objective that's completed and not a new one. Sure. And I think another way to look at it is the strategic goals are meant to be longer term. Right?

10 years maybe. And so maybe you've achieved a certain set of objectives and now you want to take the next step, to get toward that larger strategic goal. Let me just show you one of the questions we talked to the staff about as we reviewed them was, where do you see you might have resource needs? And so I'm just going to highlight the intention is not to actually get into numbers or personnel or anything, but just to tell you that we're thinking ahead so when we come into budget season in January and February that some of these are going to be asked, right, for the budget.

So for example, neighborhood improvement, they have some programs to, to do improvement projects and they're recognizing they probably need more equipment. Right? Facilities. I have a question.

Yep. Who is neighborhood improvement? What are we including in that? Who does that encompass?

Yeah, right now it's our three neighborhood improvement officers and they're under Dustin right now in building department. But we're working on some amendments to that to get them someone who has the time and isn't out doing inspections all day so that they receive the help that they need. We have three neighborhood improvement officers and then a office staff Paula there as well. Do we feel like this objective that we're looking at here is going to take up the majority of their time doing this in addition to calls that they'll give to come inspect, you know, from the citizens or whatever.

I just want to make sure that, like, again, kind of the same question that we had with Brad and his team. In doing some of these things, are we taking all of our time with this one thing so the regular day-to-day things aren't being done? Do we have enough people? Should this be maybe giving out to other people to help with that?

I just, when we look at some of these objectives, I just want to make sure that it's something that can be accomplished and that it is benchmark process. You're talking about the cleanup events specifically? I'm using this as an example. Sure.

So we'll just say for the neighborhood improvement sake, do we have enough manpower to accomplish this objective with their normal day-to-day requirements workflow? I guess it depends. It's a good question. It depends on your priorities as a council and mayor.

Do you want them? Let me just say this. They have a really strong desire to be known as a group that helps people, not just enforces the rules and, you know, fines people. So the cleanup events and, and the opportunities for them to be out there helping a neighborhood is pretty high on their list.

Um, but it depends on your priorities. Is it, we want to take care of issues quickly when, when we get complaints, um, we want those resolved within a quick timeframe and have them looking actively for vehicles for, you know, for violations throughout the neighborhoods or. Uh, and, and, and if that's the case, then yes, I think we need more people. So using this as an example, then in order for the council to be able to weigh in on something like that, you need data.

Yeah. We would need to know how many calls that we're receiving. What are the, the genesis of those calls in doing all of those things? Can we implement the cleanup program with them?

And can we use those two things together to answer the calls, but also to improve the neighborhood, et cetera. So I think like in looking at some of these objectives, I mean, this is, I brought this up in January. I feel like these are some things that the council needs to be more involved in evaluating whether that's still the primary objective, or if there have been things that have happened in the last, you know, 11 months that now need to be a higher priority because of something that we identified. Like we, we don't have enough funding that's going towards this particular thing and we need to start doing some focus on that.

And maybe some of these other things can be paused for a second. So the crucial critical things to be taken care of. But I think that we have to go through and evaluate these objectives to Steve's point. What is the priority?

And where the council is not really involved in the creation of those objectives, I think that's one of those things that needs to change. That's my personal opinion about that. Otherwise, how do we give direction? If all we know is the level above that, we don't know how we're accomplishing that.

We're just looking at, well, here's what the strategy is. We don't really know if the objective and everything after that is really accomplishing the strategy. Some of that should be our job to bring you the data and provide you with the information so that, so that we can either say the subjective, yes, the subjective, in order to achieve this objective, we need more resources. And that's one reason why I was so excited about creating this, having this strategic plan created and the goals created by the council is so that we can make data-driven decisions and tie them back to the goals.

If an objective is not helping us achieve a goal, then we need to toss it and get a new objective. I can tell you what my thought was when I looked at this. Are we creating collisions with the legislative priority list and the objective list? Yeah, we are.

And that's why I'm looking at this going, this is why we need to be involved in both of those so we're not creating an impossible task. And you guys are doing the councils totally out of touch with what needs to happen here because here's this long legislative priority list and it's absolutely colliding with this objective list. Which one do we do first? And I think if we're not evaluating that and looking at it and going, okay, this is the most important thing and maybe this legislative priority could be part of this.

And we recognize that we have three departments that are trying to do this insurmountable task and getting open gov done. And we've mandated that this gets done and they need to be done in this amount of time, but we've also said they've got to do these things too. How do they accomplish both of those things? And I think if we don't know what those things are, then we are part of the problem.

But I think we have to be involved in this objective conversation from the very get-go and go, okay, which one is the priority? The objective for the strategic planning or the legislative priority? And really they should be the same thing. Yeah, and there is some crossover, but you're absolutely correct.

There is some potential for collision. And you'll see that when we get to the legislative priority list, either today or tomorrow, you'll see both on this list, when you get to about the turnover to the next to last page, you'll see a whole list of planning goals. And when you look at the legislative priority list, you're going to see the same thing. You're not going to see the exact same things, but you're going to see a long list for both planning on both of these lists that makes it a challenge.

Yeah, knowing what departments we're burdening is going to be important with that conversation as well. Yep. No, I agree with you. So if you were to go through, one thing I wanted to point out, library, so if you read this thing, we sorted it by where it shows up in the budget book.

Right? On the right-hand column. And then if you go over to the far left of it, you'll see the actual objective. You'll see a numbering system.

And so on my master list, all these numbers line up, 1 to 37, and then all the little subs underneath them. But I'm telling you that because if you scroll down to look at different departments, you can see things of interest. You can see the library did something I thought was interesting. Their numbers are less on about a completion and more about the number of programs, statistical.

And that's, you know, ultimately that's where we're going to want to get to. But Michelle talked about -- when I talked to her, she showed what they've done with programs, adding new programming for learning of all ages. They wanted to add six programs this year. They've got four already.

They wanted to increase digital use by 25% and physical use by 10%. They're still working on the digital use, up 9.8%, and they're still going up, and they're already keeping the physical use numbers. And one thing that was interesting on that -- so she talks about needing more additional funds, and that's on this list here for things -- digital books are a lot more expensive than physical books. I didn't know that.

I spent almost exact numbers. $2,000 got me almost a little over 300 physical items. That same $2,000 got me maybe 77 digital items. So there's a huge discrepancy between physical -- and the digital stuff, we don't always own it forever.

It will go away after a couple of years. It's metered access. Is it like a subscription or something like that? It's through overdrive.

So some things you own it. Some things you're leasing it, but you're paying more for it. So when people are complaining that they can't download certain things, it's because we can't afford to keep up with the demand. The State Library -- we're part of the consortium.

The State Library puts down almost a million dollars a year, and they can't keep up with it. No. So is there a lot of information in the organization? No.

We put money into it. We are part of the consortium. Not only the data. You're trying to get access to it.

You're putting money into it to gain access, whether it's books or whatever. Is that coming from private entities, or is it government entities? We're getting all that information. It's not our budget.

Not our budget. The data. The books? The books.

The books and all the things that you recently time for or -- Where do you buy them? Overdrive. It's a platform. Yeah.

It's a small platform. Thank you, Barna. Yeah. Sorry.

I wouldn't be like, I don't get that. Yeah. I would not get the question. It was the data that was throwing me off, and I was like, he needs books.

Books. We're talking about electronic access, right? No. We will not perform for that.

Right. Thank you. Facilities wants you to know that as our facilities age, it costs more money to operate. So you see that in the budget that we need more money to operate.

That's why. Parks talks about having some more FTEs. Planning recognizes that -- Can I ask a question, clear off topic so I don't forget? Yes.

Derail this. Because you just talked about facilities. Yep. I believe you just went right, and we were talking about this a day or two a week ago.

A while back, we were looking at renting additional space for staff. I believe that it might have been the golf course even, and it was denied. One of the things we asked to be looked into was mobile units at possibly the Courtyard Park or the sewer treatment plant, any place. That was months ago, and I'm wondering, have we solved that problem?

Natalie has. Yeah. It takes a little bit to get some quotes because they don't just quote the building. They have to quote all of the details.

So I got a bunch of rental prices, and now I'm asking for purchasing prices because, you know, we want a way that the investment of renting versus buying or things like that. So those numbers will come to you soon, but -- It's not a budget item to take care of that need, but in the meantime, we're still hiring, and the theme is we need more staff, and we keep saying we want to allocate more staff, but we still don't have anywhere to put people. Because we have the -- we have the space over here. So we have, like, 12 empty desks right now.

So we're okay. Yeah. Let's put a pin in that and have that discussion this afternoon with our facilities master plan. We'll talk about -- it's a good question.

145. We don't want you to forget. Yeah. So -- There was another question I was going to ask that's not on here.

I don't check. It's a budget, but I'm waiting. So I want to ask a general question. Is the purpose of this just to run through how we're doing the plan, or is the purpose to actually talk about what's in here?

Just for me, what's in here is more important than the format of it. But we're spending a lot of time talking about template. We don't have an hour. There's a lot of things in here to talk about and discuss.

Is that functioning well? Is that a priority still? Are we giving you the things that you need for that? Are we failing at this?

Because if we're not having those discussions, this section becomes unnecessary to even have where we should be talking about what's in here rather than what it is. That's just -- I feel like if we're going to have a strategic planning, we need to talk about what's in this. So we can come back to the departments and say, how are we doing? You know, it shows here that we -- you know, to Jared's point, it's complete.

Awesome. So how do we move from that point forward? Or it's only got 10% done. Why?

Why is there only 10% done? Is it because we don't have time? We don't have -- there's not enough people to accomplish that task. I think those are the discussions -- for me personally, I want to have those discussions while we're in this setting because we don't get this opportunity only but twice a year.

We can talk about templates and what all this is in city council. I want to talk about what's in this. Sure. And, Rich?

We know that we are now past the overview portion. Let's do it. What a great segue, Rich. Way to set that up.

Let's get to the -- Well, and now we have -- and really what we've got is I've got -- I've got -- the rest of my slides are all like this. They're basically taken from this sheet, which is why you have the sheet. And what I would suggest to you is we could flip through each of these sheets if you have a question on them or specific areas that you've already identified you want to go to, we can have those conversations. And that's -- and all the staff here know that if you have questions on stuff in their preview, we'll address them.

So first couple sections are the attorney and the cleanup of the neighborhood program. Anything there you want to talk about or should we move on? I do with the neighborhood cleanup. I think we know that our residents are frustrated.

I had a conversation with the resident. I had a conversation with the resident at the veteran's breakfast. Okay. And it wasn't the veteran bee you think it was.

Let me start with you. But he was there. He was. I remind you we are being recorded here.

Okay. It was not he. But another veteran who I didn't expect quite a bit just simply said, Brett, what have we got to do to have some improvement in taking care of those weeds? And that's a pretty tough question because I recognize it requires staff.

It requires money, time, and resources, right? And his suggestion was why don't we adopt areas of the city? Why doesn't the veterans, both 111, adopt a section of the city and we'll come in and take care of it and clean it up? And so I think those are the types of suggestions that we need to be looking at how to solve this because I don't think it's enough to just simply say we don't really have the resources to maintain those.

Our citizens are asking for us to tackle that. And I'd like for us to do some outside the box thinking, involve our neighborhood improvement group in that. And let's have them help us organize some community volunteer days to help mitigate some of those concerns. Let's get the people who are most worried about it out there helping us take care of it.

And what other organizations can we tap into that are looking for opportunities to do services? I can tell you right now that the neighborhood groups, and we've witnessed this last Saturday planting trees at the Burnstar, if we would say this trail needs maintained and we get XYZ neighborhood to come out and sense and volunteer, they'd do it. They help us. We'll provide the equipment, the way to get rid of all the refuse.

So I just want to float that idea because I don't think it's enough to just say, okay, we've done what we can with the resources we have and we're still not meeting the need. I think we have to think beyond that and say, how could we meet the need by involving the community in the, in the, in the solution of the problem. If it's that big a deal, and I believe that it is, I keep hearing about it all agree. So I just want to see if we can tap into some volunteer efforts to help take care of that.

Well, I think part of this, Steve, you probably want to jump in here. I think we probably need to establish a standard because we don't have a standard. So whatever that's going to take here, I'm going to float that out there and let it land. Obviously we're in November.

So, but I think we should be thinking about a spring cleanup and how do we tackle that? Could we do them parallel though? Could we be working on the standard and increasing the service project opportunity, but also documenting the fact that we did some of that stuff? Like, did we do a post from Saturday when we did the tree planting at all?

Did that, that might be a good thing to do because then people are like, Oh, they do care. They're doing something. I'm going to say this. The only reason I knew that was occurring is because I saw the Eagle Mountain Nature and Wildlife post on Facebook, or I would have missed it.

I didn't know it was occurring either. So what I'm saying is that we have some opportunity, I think, to tap into some of that if we'll keep our ear a little closer to the ground and if we'll take a lead in that. Todd knew about it. I mean, somebody knew about it.

Todd organized it, didn't he? Todd did organize it. So my point is that I didn't know about it and you didn't know about it. I still don't know what you're talking about.

Just nod. Yeah. I think we can do better and I think we'll have even greater results if we'll take that as one of our objectives. Just make sure that we're communicating clearly, well in advance, and to a broader group.

Because we're not getting to the water to keep it low when it comes to being able to. I think adding on to that graphic, that's going to be the objective that we all know that there are limitations, right? There are budget limitations, we have manpower limitations. And I think I've said this a number of times, we have a huge volunteer capacity.

72,000 of them. If we will utilize them. And I think that here's the main point, maybe there's a standard that needs to be fitted, but it needs to be fast. It needs to be, you know, within a couple months.

And this is what it is. And now we're going to start reaching out to the organizations that exist within Eagle Mountain. And maybe it is HOA's, to Jared's point, that we're reaching out to and saying in your area. These areas are a big deal.

We're going to bring city equipment. We're going to bring dumpsters. Garbage bags. We need the citizens' help.

We have manpower limitations. Will you come and help? And reach out to those organizations. Even equipment.

Everybody has their own shuttles. I mean, if you say bring a lawn mower or a weed whacker, they can bring their own. Yes. The other thing that I'm wondering about, because we have the capability in, what is the system that we use to make announcements?

I forgot the name of that. Ever. Everbridge. Anyway, we have the capability within that to send a text to a certain geographic set of streets.

So if we were doing a neighborhood, we could say, this Friday afternoon, we're going to be in your neighborhood or Saturday morning or whatever. We'd love to have you come. More information, click on this link. Like, that might be a good way to use some of the tools we already have to get the word out, too.

I want to hear what Angela had to say. Oh, I was just going to say that you're talking about the volunteers that would come out. Probably about nine years ago, I was over the neighborhood and that was just a huge- Sounds like you're volunteering. No, no, no.

I was in a different role then. Still sounds like a volunteer. But we got over 700 volunteers from the city. That was nine years ago.

We've grown so much. That was reaching out to wards. That was reaching out to Boy Scouts. That was reaching out to just all of these.

And we had over 700 volunteers. They brought their own shovels. We had- We could clean up our trails in one day. Yeah.

And we spent the whole summer talking about it. Well, and this is the thing about, like, EM serves and stuff like that. For, like, three years, we had really good interaction with them. This year, it was, like, crazy.

I don't think anybody knew what this group was doing and it's because it rotates through. And part of me feels like maybe we need to have some continuity in that so that we could use that mechanism. Because they're really good at getting the word out throughout the community and the different nonprofits. But this year, it was just a complete falling down.

Well, I think that Angela and you have identified something other than a lot of years. How many ever years ago, Angela was responsible for doing it? She has different responsibilities. Right.

We don't really know who can be that person. Right. We don't have a standard. Right.

Or we have a program in place. There needs to be some continuity to this. So it's not, what are we going to do this year? It needs to be, this person is now in charge of this and they are going to utilize this for whatever we need them for.

It can't, it's not just going to be parks and trails. There are other opportunities for helping with some of these things that our departments can say, hey, let's utilize the volunteer network that we have here to help accomplish this faster. And I think it has to be, this is the responsibility for whoever that's going to be. You know, the mayor and Steve can make that determination.

But then the continuity of that is important. So that every single year, we're already, hey, we need our volunteer network for this event. We need this volunteer network to do this service project. We're, you know, we want everybody to show up to support this organization that we feel strongly about.

Right. Kind of a thing. Then it all falls back to, we have a plan. I actually think, so there's two things that are coming to mind.

There's kind of like the position needs to be like a community engagement person, because their job is just, you know, coordinating within. So is that Don? Well, that's what I'm wondering, or someone within that kind of realm of things. But the other piece, the other piece that we need to make sure we're doing is like, what are the liability sides of having a community service project?

Well, people don't lose wins. That's part of the job. Sorry. There's going to be a little check box that, like, you acknowledge that could happen.

But the library has a really good, like, volunteer vetting form that they use for, like, when you're coming in and doing stuff in the library. So I feel like, as part of the standard and the position. Is this for organizations to fill out, basically? I mean, whatever it needs to be.

Does it really want you to see a individual person having to fill this out and want to come out? I don't know. We do need that. Thank you.

Yes. That's the story. Right. I think we need to do a risk assessment really quickly so we know what we need to do and work to get those things in place.

Because bureaucrats are getting our own way. I was going to tell you. If you want to go down the track of liability, then forget it and start hiring people because we're not going to be able to use volunteers. Or we're going to say, look, there's risk.

Let's use our volunteers and accept the risk. I'm going to tell you. Someone dies. That's part of it.

I mean, that's why we're sure. Honestly. Well, has anyone done that yet? Hey, I'd love to address this.

Oh, wait. Steve's talking. These are excellent comments. Great discussion.

And those are the kind of things. So if you look at that first page, that second one, second objective, create property cleanup and assistance programs to benefit residents and improve neighborhoods, then those action items are, I think, very similar to what you just talked about. We can adjust those if needed. And then we can determine as well internally if there are, you know, if there are ways to include another department or resources needed to be able to accomplish those things.

So that first one is establish partnerships, develop partnerships with these groups, community groups, nonprofits, service organizations, and then get funding for those cleanup events. Just FYI, we purchased a trailer. We purchased a dump trailer, but also a trailer that's an equipment trailer. And we bought equipment that we can then take to these community events and the neighborhood improvement guys can be there.

So residents can come out, either bring their own equipment or use that equipment, sign a form, use that equipment for the event. The idea was exactly what you're talking about is go out and clean up not only public property, but also HOA property, private property, as long as we have the appropriate permission to do that. So I want to make a comment on this to that point. So we talked about this in January.

Where are we in this particular section on what's been completed? And we've been beat up about this all year. We have 10% on creative planning and applicable policies for cleanup events and zero on everything else. I mean, this is kind of the point of what we're talking about.

Like, we talked about it, but what have we done to accomplish this? Because, I mean, we've had them -- how many times have they come and beat us up at the city council meeting about this particular thing? Well, I'll tell you two things to that. One, it's not zero.

It just is hard to track a couple of those. So we did purchase -- since January, we purchased the two trailers. We purchased the equipment. Another portion of this doesn't involve neighborhood improvement necessarily, but it's the -- if you're talking about what we've been beat up about, it's the weeds, right?

It's the public property weeds. So we've created a position that you budgeted for in our budget amendment recently that was an open space manager. We're filling that with a current employee adding to doing a joint -- so I don't know if I want to just talk about it now, but Todd Black is taking on the responsibility of open space manager and wildlife biologist, and we're going to build a team. You also approved an open space technician to be able to work with him on that.

He'll be responsible for not only improvement of the wildlife corridor and open space areas, but maintenance of the natural areas. And our trails and open space? Trail areas, yep. The bike park area.

Anything improved that's a park that's improved still falls under parks department. So what about that area over not where city hall is, you know, those 100-foot wide? By the landing? Yeah, those huge trails.

Yeah, those he'd be responsible for. Over by the park or down by city hall? No, we're talking about Patterson subdivision. There's trails, there's huge trails.

There's the swaths that are in between them. So he'd be responsible to manage that and whether it's working with our contractor to help take care of those areas or if it's he and his crew to take care of them or work with neighborhood partners and groups. Not at this time. So who would be Todd's direct supervisor?

It's changing. So we're going to change that. So right now it's Brandon. It's going to be Zach.

Because he's over parks and has the equipment for the parks department and everything. So that's the goal is to switch that over to Zach. But keep his wildlife biologist title and have him still focus on that. But but it's not one of those like our old right.

Our old philosophy is a growing community without the budget to provide additional personnel was you give slash titles and you have people doing multiple things. The new philosophy, we can still have some of that, but obviously, it's to provide resources under him so that he is able to actually have a team who can do that. I know we've done different wildlife posts and different things like that. Part of me is wondering, have we done anything to say, this is what the city is doing.

We've heard you. We're addressing your concerns. We've created these two positions. And this is like, we're rolling it forward just so we can point back to it and say, we agree.

We were working on it. This is what we're doing to work on it. Has that or no? That has not happened, but it certainly can.

I think it's important because you see on social media, they're not listening. They don't hear us. Yeah. They don't care about what we're saying.

And I think that that's not true. I think we all know that, right? Right. To Melissa's point though, we need to let them know when we're addressing those things and how we're addressing those things and how we're trying to hear what they're doing and address it by adding more people.

Or no programs in place and we put budget towards this. And here's our plan to accomplish these things. If we don't do that, then they are right. We're not listening to them because we never let them know.

Hey, we hear you. And this is what we've done. So with that, Todd and Nathan, they've been working on that, an open space plan. And part of that open space plan is going to have direct actions and strategies that they want to implement.

So I think that that's why this makes sense. I mean, Todd's been involved with this from day one. He's been assessing this. Maybe not all those corridors go directly to open space.

We've got to figure out what that relationship is. But that's something I tasked him with last year to start working on that plan so that then we can implement it this year. So I think by the time he's done here in the next few months, we're going to have a pretty good actions and strategies plan. And maybe what I'm hearing is it sounds like maybe we need to push some of those actions and strategies out to the community so they know what we're going to do.

Well, and even before then, just an announcement. We're so excited to tell you that we have these special positions in our city. Wildlife is so important to us. Open space is so important to all of us.

And we want you to know, here are some of the things that we're implementing to do that. Stay tuned for those strategies and objectives that we're like, anything like that. I just think whenever we get raked across the coals, we should be asking, oh, should I go comment on this one little thing and deal with this one person? Or could I put out a PSA to everyone to address that so we don't have somebody one off?

We've heard you about. Yes. By the way, popped into my head. Are we doing something now that prevents those from coming back next year?

Now that the bloom is over with. We're not having to go and chop everything down now because they're all dead. Coats. Or they're heading towards dead.

Is there something we can do? It's the goats. Is there something we can do? Like a spray or whatever?

No. I mean, I talked to Todd yesterday, actually yesterday or the day before about his plans for some of those areas. I think you're going to have to work on them over time to delineate it. And the best way is you're going to have to remove it and you're going to have to start replanting.

I mean, that's going to be the best way. So, scraping and tilling? Yeah. So, the basic answer that- We're using one word to categorize multiple different landscapes, right?

Like some of this is land you don't want to touch that really is native and we don't want to touch that. And some people see that as weeds and that's not weeds, right? So, when we categorize this stuff, it's not one thing fits all. I'm not talking about native land, I'm talking about thistles.

That's what I'm talking about. So, thistles we spray. We've had an active plan this year where they've gone down trail systems, open corridors. We've sprayed, I don't even know how many gallons of kills all this year to try to knock one out.

And we have like four different seed mixes that we're testing because a lot of this stuff is like not irrigated, right? So, we're trying some pollinator seed mixes. The other thing- Todd has like four different seed mixes that we've implemented on a couple of our detention ponds. To see what works.

We have some city hall, obviously. When you walk in, you can see the pollinators that he's done. The pollinators have done outstanding. So, communication is that.

Trying to establish some short native grasses. And I think we are tending to, but we're at the beginning stages of trying to see what works as well. But I think that that needs to be communicated, Zach, because what we're hearing from residents is you're doing nothing. And that's not true.

That's not what we're hearing. Yeah. But we're not getting that message out where they recognize that, look, we've tackled four different areas in the city with different seed mixes that we're looking to test in an effort to decide which areas in the city are going to do best with this type of re-vegetation. Which areas are we going to leave alone?

Which areas are we going to improve? Which areas are we going to come in and knock it down? I don't think that's being communicated effectively. I mean, I'm glad to hear that.

That's kind of, for me, that's weird news. That's what I'm going to say. We just need to toot our horn more, you guys. You guys are doing wonderful things.

I hope this doesn't feel like, at least from my perspective, this isn't that I'm frustrated, I'm going to beat up on the guys who are doing all the heavy lifting. That's not it at all. I'm grateful. But I don't think that we, as council members, because we're lacking data to share, number one, or as an organization, are doing the best job that we can in communicating these things to the residents so that they see that we're actively pursuing some solutions to some of the problems.

But then here's the thing that happens with them. If they don't think that we're addressing the problems, then what they end up doing is when we do community outreach things, when Tyler sends something out, Brandon sends something out for the general plan for downtown. What we're hearing is, why are we spending more money on these things when we can't even address these things? Yep.

For a public relations thing, we need to let them know we are addressing those things. The money that you're being taxed for is being spent on your behalf. And we're doing it in these ways. And by the way, we recognize that this is an insurmountable task, and so we're going to elevate it by doing these things that, you know, Steve has talked about in activating, adding more people to the department.

And we're going to put a plan in place to bring volunteers, and our 2025 plan is going to be more robust. We hear you. This is the things that we're doing, so that the other things that we reach out to from our departments can have the benefit of good community input that is not always just raging against the machine all the time. So, okay, so I think we heard loud and clear.

We need to communicate better with our residents of some of the efforts we're making after we hear complaints or know about that. Look, and I teach Tyler for not getting the word out, but listen, he can't get the word out if he doesn't know. If we didn't know, if it's the department heads that didn't tell him they did for us, how could he get the word out? So we need to internally be able to say, hey, by the way, this is what's going on.

It's a big win. Yes. Yeah. We all are too humble.

Big win Wednesday. And let me articulate this, because what I'm hearing you is articulate an issue and a desire to elevate this particular issue to a higher priority in terms of accomplishment. And we have more slides to get through. And so I would suggest we have these, you articulate there's an issue, we can elevate it.

And I suggest that what we do is we note it and we come back to you with more information and have another discussion elsewhere. Can I just clarify that? I don't know that we necessarily need the priority of certain things to change per se. But I think the getting the word out that it's on the list of things that we're actively doing is useful.

Because we want City Hall land purchase. There's a bunch of different things that we want. It's not a 1 through 37 thing. It's 37 things that are being worked on at the same time.

Right. And I don't feel like I need to fast track the weeds to the top per se. It's just getting the word out that it's on this big, huge list of things that we're working on, kind of. Just one thing really quick.

All this commentary has been very helpful. And just, you know, we have been talking about being more outward facing in our approach to things. Because I think we're all really good at being inward facing. But it's that, and we talked about it, making that leap from good to great is coming out of the way to this.

So, yeah. So, this is spot on. That was very well. Well, thank you.

I couldn't one of your questions. What was my front? Hey, you think you can use a band in this conversation? We're on this journey together.

Well, there we go. For foreigners and domestic allies. Todd is going to gather a goat management program. Now, goats won't answer every application, but some of them will.

Well, let's not rule anything out, man. We should have that on video or something. What, the goats? Yes.

It's pretty fantastic. We should send that to, like, CBS Sunday Morning News, because we'll do a little story about it. Okay, back to a big question. Is there anything on the communications list that you want to talk about before Tyler goes to the treaty?

I think it'd be great to know what we're sending out before it goes out, so that we're prepared to answer to it when they say, what does this mean? You know, I think sometimes, for me personally, like, if a survey goes out and it's from a department and we don't even know if the survey's going out, we can't really even say what it's for. I don't like to be in the position of, I have no idea, frankly, because that makes it look like that we're not communicating internally. It's interesting that residents call us and say, I saw this, and you're like, oh, you saw it before me?

Yeah, I don't know what you're talking about. So I guess what I'm hearing you say is when we have, like, an official something like that, to send counsel a brief and say, hey. And I think we get a lot of that. I just think that sometimes there's, because we're such a big machine, there's sometimes where it doesn't get pushed.

I actually just send a counsel email, this is going out, and if we don't read it, that's on us. But at least that has the ability to say, okay, here's what it is, this is the details of it, resident A, and this is what the purpose of it is, this is what we're trying to accomplish. And it says to improve public and social media engagement, I think that we've already covered that. Do you want one each, every time before a message goes out, or do you want, like, a...

I think it was surveys or policy, for sure. And I don't think that's us wanting to review the survey and give input. It's just, counsel, this is going out. But for the marketing stuff that's going out.

Tyler does a great job of that, typically. I just think there's other departments that will also push things out, and it doesn't necessarily follow the same workflow that you have with communication. Anything else for Tyler? One other thing I was thinking of, I think if there was a way for us, and I had to go back to the utility bills, because everybody.

Whether we're talking email or printed, sending an event calendar out, at least for the month, would be smart. Nobody looks at them. Yeah, I don't look at mine. But I'm going to tell you who does look at it.

The people who don't use computers and social media. That's valid. So we're talking about our older generation. That is valid.

We're talking about our 50s and older people. Oh, thank you. Unless you're 50. There you go.

There's a big part of our population that doesn't utilize that. Or they're not even tuned into our specific social media page, and so they're unaware of anything. Why not reach out to as many people as you can? Yes, there's a cost associated with it, but it's a community engagement tool.

I have one more thing, Cliff, if I may, for fun. And I kind of said, you alluded to this a little bit from the Planning Commission. And really, they had a discussion on Tuesday, and the question was, what is Eagle Mountain's brand? And so I think most of you in this room have been involved in those discussions enough to have a sense of what it is.

But how is it being communicated outside of this room? Because our Planning Commissioners didn't feel like they really could articulate what our brand is. And so I just want to plant that seed and kind of let that fester a little bit among this group. Because how do we articulate that, perhaps, in a more concise manner?

I don't know what the answer to that is. That's part of why I directed you to watch that. Because I think we all understand that it's outdoors, it's getting outside of your space, it's trails, it's open space, it's wildlife work. But how do we say that in a meaningful way?

Springville City is the art city. How does Eagle Mountain? How do we describe ourselves? We're ascending together, but what are we ascending to?

What is our elevator pitch on? What's our market? What are you going to put on the billboard? You know, it used to be, find yourself in Eagle Mountain.

Well, I don't think we want to, please don't come. Yeah. We found ourselves. And then go home.

I don't think that's what we want to do. But somehow I want to be able to market that, encapsulate that, that says, you know, step outside. Or I don't know what it is. Come west.

And whatever it is, that's your job. Tyler, you're the smart guy that helped us figure this out. There's Randy. I just think if we could have just something that encapsulates that so that people who don't know us hear that, they're like, oh, what is that like?

Right? Get outdoors. Maybe that's what it is. I don't know.

But I'm going to plant that seed. I was going to say, Tyler's on the ball after that discussion with, you know, after that comment that came from the Planning Commission. He's asked when you can come and talk to the plant, which we got to be scheduled for December 10th. Cool.

I was going to be like, I knew you would be. That would happen in the discussions for the general plan, right? Right. It brought up a good point, though.

Are all of our things working together? Is our brand working with our strategic plan? I mean, have we implemented all of those things together? And are they working harmoniously together for the end goal?

Because if they're not, what's the point? Right. And do we actually know that? Do we know that they are?

I'm going to put that question out there in the process of doing that. Have we evaluated that these places that we've spent a tremendous amount of money on, are they working together for the end goal that has been established through branding, strategic goals? Because if the answer's no, we need to fix that. They're close.

They're really close, in my opinion. But there needs to be, I think, just a little bit more from my perspective. Yeah, this is awesome. Go ahead.

Oh, sorry. I was just going to say, I've been impressed with Tyler with the standpoint of, you know, we've got a lot of major things going on at the general plan. We're working on our architectural standards. And he's been connecting with me, checking in, like, how can I help incorporate the brand?

What help do you need? So he's always been on the ball, checking in with me to make sure. And frankly, it's been helping me to remember, oh, yeah, let's make sure we're getting that brand into our general plan and architectural standards. Yeah, our general plan should be screening our brand.

Yeah. And we heard you were going to have a branding chapter. I'm saying not just a chapter with the brand, but the implementation of the language for our objectives in the general plan, our math, all of it should be here is a visual representation of what the brand is. This is who we are.

Because if it doesn't do that, then they're not really working together. So we have Tyler come in and meeting with us with our GSBS future language consultant. Yeah, this is exciting to hear this, actually, because this is where the magic starts happening when we really start fine-tuning, bringing all that together. So this is a perfect conversation.

I love this. Okay. Thank you, Tyler. In that next one that's in line, can I ask, Kevin, it's economic development incentives policy.

Can you give us an explanation for what that means and how we're – how we're – I'd love to hear that. And that actually kind of predates me too a little bit. It's a continuation of parenting before we started that off before. Do you feel like it's updated?

We shouldn't be chasing that one? No, not necessarily. It's based on the idea that, you know, assuming, of course, we're working on trying to bring other industries, or other industries, data centers, and whatnot to take them out, and they're probably going to come with their own requests for incentives, and it seems to see how we start off this conversation with them. We don't know where to start off with.

We don't necessarily have a good narrative to share with other tax identities. We don't know where to go, but we don't know where we're going to go, but we don't know what we're going to do. What level makes sense for them based on are they first in, how much investment they're going in, how many jobs are going to be, like, all these sorts of things that we can value in. So the policy has been to really standardize that and help others be more on work with it, and even with the residents to help them understand that this is not just a company coming in and taking advantage of the city.

You know, them coming in, demanding the farm, and us, you know, just kind of bowing down, and, yes, please come be part of the city. When you look at incentives, are we, you know, I've listened to that, and I think it's easy to go to tax incentives, right, or some sort of a monetary benefit. Are we selling any other incentives to them, things like who we are and why you want to be a part of our community? What is the message that we're taking to people and say, hey, we're not going to wait for you to find us.

We want to come out. Here's the incentives for you to come to Eagle Mountain. Yes, there might be a financial benefit, but where else do you have an opportunity to be first in? Have you seen that 15-minute video that he did for economic development that went out to all that?

That's a really good one, I think, to answer that. The other thing that I was thinking about is that policy that ASD did one, and it was like, we're only going to do this, and only a certain percentage of this city's this can be this, and it's very, like, restrictive. Part of me, if we have a policy, would prefer for it to be, like, we want to know how many jobs it's going to bring, we want to know this, we don't have, like, I want, like, a worksheet, basically, that they have to fill out so that it's standardized. Every business that we look at gives us the same basic info, as opposed to, we're only going to let one per this, da-da-da-da-da, because I think that's limiting.

I think we should get to decide as a customer. We don't want to do that at all. Right, exactly. I think the conversation needs to be, one of our incentives, we have a massive workforce.

We're probably unique in that way to other places that don't have established commercial and industrial machines that are already running in there that have large groups of employees. To me, having 72,000 people to offer for your company to come in here that live close to that, that are looking for other opportunities so they don't have to drive an hour to work, to be able to drive 15 minutes to it, you're going to see immediately. And we can provide all the way from entry-level all the way up to executive-level employees. And I just, I'm not, to the same thing we've been talking about with communication outward, right?

Where are we doing that? How are we presenting the city and saying, come to Eagle Mountain, come be a partner with us, look what we can provide you. We have cheap land. We have lots of it.

We have a huge workforce. And we want to implement it. It's a benefit to us because it doesn't beat our roads up as bad. If we're not traveling in and out of Pony Express and SR73 that we don't have a responsibility for, but we still, I mean, we still have the impact of it not being wide enough.

So we're using all of our local roads trying to get people in and out. If we don't have to impact it like that every single day, it also helps, you know, Zach's team to not have to resurface every two years. So I just, maybe it's being done. I would like to see it and hear it, how we're doing that to bring in employment center type things.

For me, it's a huge priority. I think that that's no greater thing can we do for our citizens than to bring jobs to Eagle Mountain for them to be able to do here that are good paying jobs. I mean, it's not that we don't have small businesses and all that we do. We have a lot of those types of things.

They're entry level, mid level. There are some management positions that are available with the job, with the companies that we have here. But I'd like to see that in a greater thing where people can support a family with the job that's available to them in more than just, you know, a handful of those kinds of things. So I just wanted to kind of bring that up and how are we reaching out to them and really going to people and saying, we want to partner with you.

Yeah, and I 100% agree. I feel like it solves a lot of problems and that's a lot of my presentation later today has been covered on that. I'm going to say we should be helping you with our efforts. With our efforts, the mayor has many opportunities throughout the state and the county and regionally to talk with other mayors and other people that he can sell who we are.

But it doesn't have to all fall on you, I guess is what I'm coming to. It shouldn't just be you. And what I'm saying is for what I want to move to cover today is how we can all get on the same page. So we're all saying the same thing and it's going to work back in back and forth.

I'm looking forward to it. So we have the economic development and facilities this afternoon. So I'm going to skip through most of that because I think a lot of the stuff will come up. Engineering, is there anything on the engineering page that you're interested in?

Hold on, I want to back up because I didn't think my comment for the economic development. It's simple. I'm kind of nervous actually because I was a super big advocate of the school districts. I was based on my knowledge of what data centers bring us.

And the fact that we have data centers right now telling us that they're pumping brakes. Because of the power? Because of power. Has me a lot more nervous from the stances that I took originally.

So I think that's something that we need to address that either we're going to continue forward with our data centers or we need to find a replacement in our industrial area, which more importantly, I think we need to address our power situation. Another conversation I think I had with Council Member Wright is if that means we create our own power department, buy it back from Rocky Mountain, which would be secondary to... That's why I said secondary to building our own IPP, our own power state, you know, whether that's nuclear, gas. But somehow what we were talking about, and I'm not the expert here, is looking into our own power creation.

So tomorrow morning when we have the breakfast of the legislators, I think that that's going to be a really good conversation to have. Because we need the state, us, and department heads relevant. Yeah, and that's going to be all encompassing with both economic development. Yes.

We also need land set aside. If we're talking about a power plant, how much land, whether it's nuclear or whatever, where are we going to put that? I mean, bonding, obviously, if I buy back the power from Rocky Mountain, which again, secondary to all the other questions. Yeah.

But. As far as nuclear, I did contact Congress Curtis' office and they are going to call on the schedule at the time when he came out. Awesome. Because he's the one that passed the legislation.

Thank you for doing it. Well, the state's working on it, too. So that's why I said, because I had a robust conversation with Jeff about it. But if we wait for the state, we're 15 years away.

No, tomorrow morning, if Jeff's going to be here, this will answer a lot of your questions. They've been given major heads up. Yeah, we've been having these conversations. I'm going to tell you, I'm just a little surprised that they know so little about that happening, though.

Because I've talked to a couple of them, and they're like, oh, I wasn't aware. And I'm saying, how can you be unaware of something that's so crucial to not just Eagle Mountain, but to the state? I mean, to have data centers start pumping the brakes and start looking for other states to do business in would be devastating to the entire state. I think the governor's very aware.

That's why it's double power out. Yeah, it's been years, right? No, no, no, no. It's super big right now, because I've been at four different conferences this summer.

And every single one, every single one, it gets brought up. The fact that one of our data centers, and he doesn't say where it is, but I know where it is, it will take more power than what the whole state of Wyoming uses. And that's the big thing that they're all talking about at this. So, like, it's top of mind for all of them.

But all of your questions are good. So, back on the economic development side of the power issue, if we get our power figured out, are those people going to come back or are we losing them? Like, where are we at with Google or GTS? All of them have said they're just positive.

So, they're not going anywhere. Sitting on it, like, looking at their solutions. You can't replace them with the own land. Yeah.

Well, but here's the thing that I see as critical, whether they're saying it or not, they have capital set aside for these projects. They won't just let that capital settle, right? Yeah. They will do something with it.

That's something we're going to do. So, I think we have... They're not like grass either, right? And they're talking with all sorts of people.

Right. I've had a few different companies reach out to me saying, how can we get power to the mountain outside of rough rock about how power can do? So, I have requests coming in for 300 acres of land for a large nuclear power plant. We have natural gas in two different forms wanting to do power here.

Well, so, what are the... What are the roadblocks? What are the roadblocks that you're seeing? So, we can go out and we can start putting the pressure on the...

The other thing is, we're not far enough along to really know exactly what roadblocks are. We're trying to make sure that we won't have to be one, but we're also trying to properly inform the state that this is coming so that they can also do a thing. I'd almost rather have our own power, whether that's nuclear or whatever you're looking into, than to rely on rock about. So, I would love to get...

I've made a comment before. You said that there are some state regulations that are in the way. Do you know what those are specifically? Well, I know, um, um, um, Al Rafferty tried to do, um, provide power to his building in Salt Lake, West Valley, actually.

And, um, Rocky Mountain Power wouldn't let him do it, um, through the way that he wanted to do it. So, there's, there's... We need to find out if there's a way to be able to do it without everything running through Rocky Mountain. Yeah.

Yeah, and I don't fully understand all the details, but in my conversations with our legislators, here's my interpretation. It might not be 100% accurate, but Rocky Mountain Power has more or less a monopoly. But then they have some restrictions on, some federal restrictions on them that are tight. So, so they need, this is the way our, our legislators explained it, uh, in a very short time, is that, uh, there, there needs to be a split at Rocky Mountain Power.

That, that's what they expressed, uh, a path forward, but that's just Rocky Mountain Power, but some of it is, too, um, we're going to need, uh, both the federal and state government lined up to allow, to clear the path for these other, the regulatory stuff, to, to, to clear that path for power generation. So, so we really need our federal delegation and our state delegation to line up, to be sitting in the same room with, and it's honestly, we're going to be sitting in there because it all surrounds power for the data centers that exist in, in our city. I don't know if there's any other place that would be time to move that, if there are, they should be in that same room as well. And Burgess has.

I was just going to say, is Burgess invited? We have been invited to some of those meetings, so I know he's, he's been there, but I think, um, I'm just saying, Congressman Curtis is effective. Well, that's what I'm saying, he should be there. Yeah.

Any of our elected federal officials, we need to have a meeting tomorrow, they've been invited, I mean, that's. We're a little ahead. We have not been able to get them here yet. Of course, they just got out of elections.

We need to set a date for it where you can tell them this is something. Well, as I've been, staff can attest to it, I've been telling them, I might not be around much, because I need to, like, put all my time into this. You're probably right. There's probably no more pressing thing to be looking outward than this right now, because it's our economic engine.

All right. Yeah. Cities. Based on.

It totally is. Totally is. And you were saying, like you were saying, a lot of stuff stacked up on that, like the school district. Yeah.

I mean, that's how we're going to pay for this school. Yeah. Exactly. I can tell people we're getting swimming pools, not what I'm doing.

I just have one quick question from the council so we can get some direction on it. We've got an alternative energy code we're working on. It's addressing, like, gas-powered power plants, small modular reactors, and solar. Do you want us to address the full-scale nuclear facility?

Yes. Any and all. We want any and all power. The reality of it is we need to look at all of it.

And what we don't want to do is we don't want to say yes to something that would have a negative impact on doing something that would be more beneficial. So what I'm saying is if all the land gets taken up with solar, for instance, and that's the land that needs to have the nuclear facility on it, we shot ourselves in the foot. Yeah. Because the output's not even close to the same.

So that's why I think these conversations, it's not something that can be, you know, waiting for spring. Like, we need to jump on this as soon as possible. And that means that all of us have got to become really smart about this subject fast. So we need to understand the small, what were they called?

The small modular reactors. Small modular reactors. We need to be smart about what the output limitations of that and what the negatives of that is. The same thing with solar and with gas powered, natural gas powered generators.

Generators. So we need to know these things and then evaluate and say, are we getting what we need out of this? And if it really is that we need to go to a full nuclear plant, what are the downsides of that? Do we want that sitting in our valley?

Or do we need to work with some communities to the south that are not going to be growing for another, you know, 75 years to work some of those things out? But if we wait, everybody else makes the decision for us and then we're just the recipient of their decisions. And Evan, if I'm off on this, correct me, but we, our intention is to have a plan in place by first quarter. A power plant?

A plan. For what? For moving forward the power generation. Yeah.

That's right. So we have something that's articulable that we can share with those players that we want to continue to grow. I think the thing is that we're working with them. Yeah.

Yes. What kind of what may are saying too, is those players are already talking to Rocky Mountain Power and the state and all of those other things. Yeah, but the problem is Rocky Mountain is telling them, sorry, nothing we can do and just turn on their hat. So on Monday, I was invited to accompany a group of legislators with all of the head people at Meta to talk about the power and what the chamber is doing for small business and what Meta has given back to the city, like the community.

And the legislators aren't ours. They were ones from all over the state that came down because that's their particular interest. So those conversations they're having and they were having them completely outside of us because I was only there because I run the chamber, not because I was a sneak outspenter. Do we know who the committee members are over at the state level?

At the state level? We need to probably find that out, right? So I can tell you the ones that were there and I can give you some of that information. But yeah, like for example, you know, DAI and their lobbyists are heavily engaged.

Is our lobbyist engaged? Yes. Yeah, I would assume. So, yeah, Evan has a comment.

I was going to say, there's two different things that you are going to have to be presented with at some point. I'm sure it's going to come up. One is just how close you're comfortable with power generation being in the homes. And then the other is one way around rock around power is to have new transmission lines by power generation companies that are separate.

Transmission lines and potentially substations. So are you okay with that? Okay with what? Meaning the distance.

And I think that's what Brandon's working on. He's not in here, but that's part of that. Right. We need to know what are our limitations for those pros and cons of it, right?

What's the impact? All those things. Yeah. But that's the question.

And I think for me to boil it down in its simplest terms is what is Eagle Mountain willing to do? What can Eagle Mountain do to help facilitate this power generation that we all agree we want to come to the Valley? At least in some form. Right.

Without destroying them. Yes. And which forms of that generation are we going to find ourselves most comfortable with? And which are we going to accept the risks for?

I mean that's the reality. So we need to know the impact for each one of these things, right? So transmission lines, what the power generation source is, how that impacts wildlife, how that impacts humans, all that in proximity to houses. I think all of that information is...

And just remember, we also impact our neighbors. Yes. If we say, just put it at the south end of the city. Well, and that's part of why I think Councilmember Gray.

I think that's part of why I think gathering up that data. Because look, if we're all going to say no to whatever comes, then there's no sense in even having a conversation. Yeah. But if we as a city can get to a place that says, this looks like this might be acceptable, and these are the things that we think are most important, then we can go back and have little conversations with the power generation companies that are perhaps off Rocky Mountain Power's lines.

Because that's a major deal. They own the infrastructure. Yeah. The delivery system.

So unless you're going to bring in a new delivery system, someone's going to pay for it, you're going to have a hard time getting it where you need it to go anyway. So I'm hearing that you would like Evan and Economic Development to put together some information for you. Whatever we have. Now, some of that we're still trying to gather from these businesses.

For instance, the small natural gas facilities. Those are the very questions we ask them. We need the data so that we can determine how close these can be to residents and others. They don't have that yet.

But whatever we can gather, we'll provide that. What you'll find, Steve, is just like what we did with the school district. I didn't know hardly anything about the school district from that conversation that first started taking place. But we'll dig in.

We'll learn. We'll research. And then we'll learn with you. And together, we'll figure out-- So if we're all sharing information and-- Yeah.

Well, and then I think once we get on the same page and we've kind of determined what's our threshold and what we can handle, we do need to start some sort of PSAs or something to help the community better understand. So if we were to go nuclear, if we were to-- the different pieces. So-- because outside entities always come in when there's a power generation thing in the city and they skew what the results and choices. So if we can be ahead of that so that we can share that info and educate, it's going to be a way better outcome.

Well, I think people will be aware that when people hear nuclear, they immediately think of the Japan facility. Yeah. If we're talking about meltdowns and people going third armies, everybody worries when they hear nuclear generated power, which is such a rare problem. And a lot of those things that happened, you know, the Japan one was a tsunami that, you know, how could they prepare for that?

Some of the other ones were just mismanagement of old technology. Well, and it-- It's come a long way since then, and they're even bringing back most of those nuclear plants that were economically shut down, not that they had any problems with safety. And that's countrywide right now. So it's something that's already at the forefront.

I just think that we need to be in the conversation because it directly impacts us economically. But perhaps, to Darren's point, it might be another opportunity for a revenue now, creating a source for you now. You know, one of the questions that comes up for me is, do we need to rethink our annexation policy southward? No question.

So, okay, since you brought it up, I was starting to decide when to bring this in. That's a good transition into growth and housing update. Yeah. So there's going to be a lot of goals and objectives that are going to have, you know, overlap, right?

So, for example, to expand on, you know, local power generation, annexation might be part of that. To expand on outdoor recreation and events, annexation is going to be part of that. So, one of the things I want to follow up with each of you on, I'll bounce this off of staff. I'm considering, what I'd like to do is create, I'm not sure what to call them, action committees, steering committees, that are focused on, focused on these, that need a little extra attention.

Something like annexation to really, to create these, to create a small, dynamic committee that can focus on that and help them move forward. Like a work group? Committees. Yeah.

The reality is, I'm in favor of that. I've said the committee idea to put all of the right minds over each of these scenes, because we can't all be everywhere. Right. You can't.

And you can't study everything. And the staff, they can't spend all their time on one particular thing all the time. So, if we have these moments where we can gather information, bring that information back to the council, and say, okay, this is what we learned from this session of the committee. I think it's a great idea.

It's what is done at every other level of government. We should be doing the same thing. So, that's what, you know, I've got a few ideas of objectives that maybe ought to be considered for a committee, but feel free to share if you've got ideas of things. I think we've identified a few of them today.

Yeah. There needs to be something that deals with our open space and parks and how we deal with that. Yeah. Public works, so basically our utilities that we've provided already, having something to help how we're going to move forward with some of those things.

Power generation and data centers obviously is going to have a big pull on that. So, I think whatever your list is, send it out to us and let's spend some time in our next city council meeting. Maybe we take 30 minutes and say, okay, what are some committees that would be meaningful and what's the, when are we going to implement them? Just a January thing?

Like, it gives us time to be able to kind of form them and then say, okay, let's go. Maybe we could unofficially get them all even before then probably, but I suspect we'll probably get a lot of traction until January. Well, could we just have a discussion tomorrow in our extra time that we have? Why not?

And just say, okay, here's some of the ones we're thinking of and then kind of hash that out and then revisit it in that council meeting soon. Mayor, could you send us your ideas so that we can kind of rumerate on that tonight? And then we can come back tomorrow during our time and have a discussion about it? Sure.

Thank you. Okay. We're getting bingo time there. Any questions on the engineering list?

No problem. Hey, I'm just glad that we have our engineering department. So with staff, then go to Mary. Well, I wanted to say one thing before we jump in.

Just FYI, Vince is hard at work now on getting all of our master plans updated for utilities. So water, sewer, storm drain, transportation, we have the parks one going as well. So all of those are getting started very soon with consultants, right? We're going to go out and get consultants.

Okay. The only thing that I had really on the engineering we spoke last Tuesday is just to take a good look at our building standards and make sure that they're not okay compared to state standards, but they're correct compared to our physical needs. You're talking about for roads mostly or for? Roads and buildings.

You know what I mean? Collapsible soils, backfill materials, and it's utilities. It's all those things. And I know Chris and I have talked about it over the years, and I think we came to a good spot, but I like fresh ice.

So I want to know if it's still the correct standard according to their opinion. So I'd like to also know impact. When we have a new application that comes in, what that impact is going to be on our sewer, our water, our stormwater capacity. So we can make good decisions.

But we need to know when we're getting to the point where we're saying yes without even recognizing what the consequence of that is. And it can't just always be about density and amount of land that's being used, but we need to talk about our resources as well, whether or not we're overburdening each of those things, that we have a responsibility for. And that helps a major part of what we're going to do is also tell us, you know, full build-out, what do we need in this area for pipe-sides, water-line-stack, all those things. So yes.

Be outspoken, Vince. That's what I'm telling you when we're in these meetings and you hear us saying stuff and we don't understand the full impact. That's when you take a little mic and say, I'd like to say something. You counsel the fools.

This is what I want you to do. Like you need to be outspoken with that because we don't know what we don't know. Sure. But sometimes we think we know everything.

Sometimes we can't do things that we don't know. And you'll never look sillier than we do. Well, the other thing, too, I was going to say, as far as engineering goes, I think that we'd like to know places that we are under-engineered that we need to go and improve. That's what I'm talking about, the roads.

Yeah. If our roads just keep failing in this area because of whatever standard was used to build that, that there's maybe some things have changed in the way the water flowed through that area that's ruined everything underneath it. Or we have a stormwater problem because, you know, we have had a lot more water running through this. We've never anticipated that.

We need to upgrade all these things. It'd be good to know those things and we can just say, yeah. Let's get this in the budget and get these things fixed so we don't keep replacing roads. So we don't keep replacing burst pipes because they can't have the capacity.

That'd be my other comment. I just remembered something. Zach, you probably know because we spent a lot of time on this. Do you know the Beanie Bush, the pipeline through Cedar Pass?

Is that signed off? I do not know where that's at. I would assume it probably is. You're saying it is?

I believe it is. So do you think that they met the contract? Because I know we met multiple times. Like this swell.

That whole storm drain swell. That I'm going to admit probably wasn't supposed to be. It probably wasn't a great idea in the beginning. But now it's even worse.

So I know in the scope it didn't have any haul off. And I think that's why we have the material where it is. My understanding is there's another project that Beanie Bush is working on. So they do plan on using some of that dirt.

But I haven't heard anything from that last course. Well, some of my bigger issues are, like I've told you in the past, is that the citizens know that. We're talking about, you know, open space and right of ways. They've left.

That's all clean, I'm going to call it. And now it's right. You can mow it. You're going to mow it.

We plan on putting some seed on it. Seed, but that doesn't take care of the rocks. No. That they imported as part of the backfill material.

Because originally it was native backfill. So I mean, I just don't think that that project is. Are you saying there's excess material that they brought in? It didn't as well as the tree cut it down.

Oh, okay. Just on the right of way. It used to be dirt and grass and mullable. Now it's three inch and six inch e-fill and you couldn't mow it.

I'll reach out and see if we can get something done. Well, I don't know if it's even their responsibility. Because I think that's what we talked about in the contract. The problem is the way it is now compared to the way it was.

We lack old weeds. It's just going to be weeds now. It's going to be right away full of weeds instead of mullable grass and alfalfa and seeds. It's just going to be weeds.

We want seed on it because we don't. Right. This is. And then that goes back to our weed issues and thistle and all that.

Right. The other thing. A large portion of us dealing with these kind of weeds. Well, it's not a large portion.

The sole reason we're dealing with it is because of those construction. Soil being. Yes. Soil being disturbed.

That brings up. That's a point that I actually wanted to bring up a little bit earlier. Have we put anything in place? Are we working on a code that has requirement to restore to its original.

I should have a contract. If it's not in the. Reclamation. There should be some.

Some code in there that requires. Whatever it is. If they're coming to do work on a pipeline and they're going to impact the right away. Along the sides of it.

If it's a new. A new construct. A new application. Where they're going to come in and there's some restrictions on them coming in and scraping the entire.

Area. And then they fill in the area that you know they can build their houses or whatever. And leave the rest of it to turn to weeds. Like I feel like that that's something we keep.

Having a problem with over and over again that we need to. Get on the stick about getting either. In the contract the MBA or. By code or maybe all three of them that needs to exist so that.

When they impact it they have a requirement to go and return it to its previous state. So we're not dealing with the impact of weeds. So under the SWIP permit it should. Address that.

I'm not sure who's over. We'll talk about that. How do we enforce it. Maybe that's the second part of it then.

How do we enforce it. Yeah. Because I think the extension of this conversation is it's limits of disturbance too. Right.

Like they. Like you shouldn't be doing work outside of your footprint. And we see that. We see that happen.

And that's part of the problem because they sort all the material on the opposite side of the road. It's contaminated. Yeah. You know what I mean.

Anyway. As I digress. Back to the engineering side of that. So they cut.

Just ran a blade through there and cut a little ditch kind of. Just a V. Do you feel like that meets the requirement for the surface area of storm drainage capacity? Because it was a swell.

And then we have those crossings that I don't know if they're protected. They're just going to fill dirt and flood. The reality is that Seager Pass Ranch has just about no storm drainage. We're already dealing with some other residents over there with flooding right.

Like when I look at your recorded plots in there. The recorded plots basically just say Seager Pass Ranch has really big lots. You're going to deal with how water historically flows. And a lot of this was done pre Eagle Mountain.

Well it's counting. That's why it's terrible. Back to the engineering level because we have a problem. Which is terrible.

Is it sufficient or do we just create fire? Is there any solution to fix that or we just live with the impact of that. We've just recently talked about how we're working with our master plans. One of the things with stormwater.

One of the things we're working on as well as a master plan for future development. We're also working on a master plan for existing deficiencies. Cedar Pass Ranch. Honestly any development that has no curb and gutter is pretty much on that list.

Anywhere that backs up to undeveloped property. Especially hillsides is on that list. But ultimately we have enough deficiencies that are big enough that it's beyond us trying to just do in house. We kind of need a master plan.

Just like we do with future infrastructure and how we plan for that and how we fund it. We need the same thing to backtrack. And they need to be separate right? Because our future infrastructure is more impact.

Our deficiencies are not impact the eligible. We've got to figure out how we fund those and what that is to fix those. Do you feel like that's something we can handle in house or do you feel like that's something we should live in house at? Our intentions are to go.

Let's make that a priority because I'm going to tell you the next spring coming in and repeating the same thing that we have had in the last two years. That just makes us look like we don't know what we're doing. So in house we have already worked. We've identified a map of all of our areas and we gave it categories as severity and extent and kind of a cost, but just like a high, medium, low.

Right. And the reason we felt like we want to do that is there's enough out there that, I mean, if we have the map ready to go today, there's no way we could fund all these deficiencies. It's going to need to be phased. But part of that, we want severity and extent because some of these, the severity being it causes a lot of property damage, but the expense may be low.

So it's low hanging fruit. We can get to it quick, but it's not going to be as extensive funds or a design. So there's like Cedar Pass Ranch where it's, it's a whole white hills, where you're talking about areas that have, they're just swells. There's no detention.

And it's trying to figure out how you get water to go where you want it to go. Do you store it? Do you try to make it all the way to Tickville? Well, I'm going to tell you to turn the tide a little bit.

Those are problems and I know we know about it. And we just got to do the best we can to manage it. On that note, we have one guy, Larry, who's freaking amazing. And I hope that you relay the message to him that our lack of preparedness or whatever lays at his lap.

And you guys do a great job of managing White Hills, Cedar Pass Ranch, Meadow Ranch, even over by Corydive Park. I can't remember the, I mean, every time it rains, it's like, okay, which fire do you put out first? So, no criticism on the result. Simply, what do we do moving forward?

So, we need more people to work with Larry, obviously. We're working on the master plan. You guys are going to get a presentation next Tuesday on our stormwater rakes. They're coming to you Tuesday.

With the agenda passing then on December 3rd. We're asking for that now. We're prepared. So, Zach, when it comes time for us to do the budget, better see the exact amount of people that you asked for better be on that budget.

We're going to be saying, where are the people you asked for before? That presentation's coming to you this Tuesday. We want to give you the people. Let us help you give you the people, is what I'm trying to say.

Well, we need to address the rates in order to help address that, right? And the rate increase is coming to you guys. Parents has something prepared for Tuesday with the intent of it being on December 3rd to be approved for, like, December. As much as that's a problem with the community for the work you've done, given what you've done.

It's not an indictment. I hope you're hearing us say, we know there's a problem. How can we help you? This isn't a recurring problem because it's a nightmare for you guys every time it happens.

And again, I think the reason I bring it up here is I think it comes back to engineering. Do we need to ask our engineering department to see if we can't make a better, it's a terrible situation that we're just living with. What could we do to improve it? Could they look at that and say...

And that's something we're already, we've already met. We're already, and where we wanted to go out with these master plans for future, we already like, hey, this is the perfect time to also address a master plan for deficiency. In the process of doing that though, can we also address these areas we know are going to be a problem if we wait until the master plan is done, they're going to flood again. We're going to have those issues again if we have the rain season.

Yeah. Especially in those catch bases. Right. They have zero rates or, I mean, they're just going to fill in.

And we're going to flood and... Well, like in your area, Woolworth would see what we can get BD Bush to do. I mean, the thing we have in our favor there is they're still working on a project. Yeah.

Well, I know that top corner where that big problem is, that dirt comes clear down the road on a road that's already too narrow. I know that's not how it was originally, even though that fence is where it is. I'd have to look at the video at the end. But there's that corner needs to dress.

And then that little cut they made, basically a ditch that's maybe four inches deep. Well, and the reality is, is the swells in your area, it's all uphill. So it's not really a swell that you can detain water. Right.

In a flat area, you can build a swell that's intended to detain the water. That's more of a ditch to give it to that catch base. It's a ditch. Right.

And there's not really any catch base and it points right into that guy's driveway. Yeah. And that ditch isn't even deep enough to carry any water considering the slope of what's coming down and the surface area, back to the engineering, of the water that... We can look at increasing it.

I would recommend that we... That right away is 15 to 18 feet wide. Right. I would rather it be a very mellow ditch, but wide.

So there's a lot of room to flow the water in. It doesn't need to be deep. If it's deep, none of the residents are going to be able to maintain. That's why that corner's a problem because it's not a ditch at all.

It's still a slope. We can look at that. Like, if there's improvements we have to make that we can't go back on BD, right? We have a greater room.

That's why my question to BD Bush, because I figured they'd get cut loose and I don't feel like that's where we want it to be. And it's probably going to fall on us, but... Well, I think based off of the contract, we're pretty limited on anything they do at this point, they're doing on their own free will. The other points of areas that we know we had to deal with flooding this year, have we addressed the issue so that there won't be a repeat of those areas coming up in this next rain season?

So White Hills, we didn't have very much flooding other than we did with the development area. But that was more based off of what they had done with construction. They had filled in ditches that we had made the previous year because of the runoff. Wasn't there a Lone Tree one or wasn't there something, was it Overlook?

There was a couple of the neighborhoods that had Overlook. And then also that arrival, the poor guy who's replaced his basement, 19,000. So that was, that one's Valley View and that one we've already gone in and we've upsized the whole pipe all the way down to the detention pond. Did you take something across the church property to build a farm or something?

The arrival one is the church log. Absolutely. Okay. Yeah.

So the arrival one, that's a little more complicated. He's not being flooded from the city system. He's being flooded from private property. He's being, his flooding is taking place from neighbor and the church parking lot.

Is that Eddie's? No, Eddie's is the one where we've made the improvements to the lawn and stuff. But the gentleman, the last one that came in, that was off of the church property. Is it just a property down the road?

Is that what it's doing? That's now been developed by the church. Historically, it's been an empty lot. My last question is going to be about the Bell Street area.

Because we know that we're going to be doing a new road through there. I'm assuming we're going to hit different engineering standards when we go through there. How are we going to retain the water so we're not flooding the school? That's the area, right?

The flooding keeps happening. The schools are closed. Yeah. And that's an issue of honor size pipe.

Right. And so that can be corrected with our next phase of the airport. Yeah, that's, I mean, to the point of engineering, I just want to make sure that, again, just like we've talked about some of these other things, if it happens again because we haven't acted, then shame on us. Yeah.

I just want to make sure that these areas where it has impacted people's property. And some people have taken some pretty devastating hits from some of these scenes. And if we've corrected them, and then, you know, moving forward with Vince's plan, awesome. I just want to make sure that in the process of doing the master plan that we're also dealing with these pressure points we know we already have.

Yeah. And we're doing what we can for, I guess, when you say that. Some of these areas, really, there's a long-term kind of goal, a large scale of improving the system, and then there's a short-term that we're trying to make minor improvements. Right.

At least, yes. We should probably keep moving. If there's things that we haven't fully addressed, we know it's going back tomorrow. It seems to me some of these things that we ended up talking about could be addressed in those committees you're talking about, too, right?

Here's the problem we want to address. Yeah. How do we resolve it? Well, no question that was more specific to a certain problem.

Oh, sure. Sorry. My fault. But it also addresses the standards that we're talking about.

What do we do with the existing things that are, you know, like you said, it's not really a swell. So how are we going to address existing, not just new, because there are problems that continue to happen because of decisions that were made before any of us were here. So, council members, finance has in their objectives the five-year capital improvement plans, data-driven decision-making, and HR has issues around workforce attraction and the workforce. Do you have any items here that you want to talk about or anything that you want to talk about?

I definitely want to talk about our budget, but I think it can wait. Do we have that on tomorrow? The budget's actually going to be in January. Yeah.

What's your question about finance? My question is specifically about finances. We project, and I know it feels like we've just finished, but in a month and a half, we're going to start again. According to projections, and I'm talking sales tax, I mean income specifically, are we ahead or behind of where we think we are?

Meaning next year's budget, are we on track to be healthy? Well, I guess I'm not prepared today to talk about where we're looking at for next year's budget. I could talk to you about if you wanted to in terms of where we're looking at for this year's budget. Well, that's what I mean.

Are we healthy right now? Yeah. Like, we are on target right now. And does it look like the trends are that the sales tax, our income, is it up, down, or static?

We only have, so for us, the first, there's only like two months in the report. So July and August money that comes in is actually last fiscal year because the state distribution is two months behind. We don't have very much yet, right? I've got two months' worth of sales tax that I'm projecting out for the end of the year.

Okay. So again, like, as of right now, we're on target with what we would expect. Is it an increase over last year's end over end? So, what is that, September, October, the two months that you have?

No, July and August, you said July and August. So I have, we have July and August from last year, and then we've just reported for September's money, right? Okay. Just barely came in, like, this month, November.

And are we ahead of where we were a year ago? I'm not certain. Okay. So then my, the real question why I ask that is this.

We keep saying more people, more people. We're flirting with our reserve funds this year. I'm prepared to think that we're going to go into our reserve funds next year if we're going to fund some of these things. That's what I'm trying to prepare for going into January.

If we're, you know, Zach needs three more guys, and Matt needs a guy or two, and the engineer is better staff than we've ever been, but maybe a guy or two. Planning is probably asking for people. Yeah. I mean, and so hopefully we're not going to spend a million dollars in marketing and branding, just because I thought it gets there, right?

Possibly another attorney who had an intern, a paralegal, I don't know what that. My question is, is that if we start talking about all this stuff, are we going to be able to do all that? If you're willing to use your reserves for ongoing operational costs, then yes, you have that. I'm willing to, but it's a temporary.

It's not something I generally recommend, right? Like I recommend we look at that from our one-time funding sources if we need to buy equipment. You know, things that obviously it's, you still have a repair replacement that will come into place with that. But when we're looking at our reserves, but yes, you've already decided you're doing that this year.

So several of the budget amendments we brought forward, right, we've identified. But do those look like they're, are they temporary or is that going to be, you say ongoing. I mean, if we fund these, obviously they're ongoing expenses, but do we see a trend where we'll have extra money from the data center coming up? Like what's the, Wal-Mart.

Yeah, Wal-Mart's coming up. So I mean, does it look like, hey, we can dip into this because there's a lot at the end of the tunnel, or are we dipping into this ongoing? Am I concerned that we're going to use up all of our reserves? No, I'm not concerned that we're going to use up all of our reserves.

But you can see a trend that we're going to get out of that though, right? That yes, if these things happen and what time they happen, it just depends on how long. If we were talking that we expect some of these revenue resources to be in place in three years and all of a sudden that turns into six years, then yeah, it looks a lot different. Well, maybe one of the things that would be beneficial from you to us is with the things that you're talking about, with the needs that you think that need to happen, this is what our income needs to be.

And right now, this is where we are. This is good information for economic development and our mayor, so that we understand that this is the kind of things that we need to go after that produces this type of tax revenue. This is what the projection is for stormwater. We know that it's here, and we need to increase it here with the new thing, and that will provide maybe some of the things that we're talking about there, so we don't have to dip into the fund.

I think that information helps us to be smarter in our decisions and going, okay, if we know that we have to increase our tax revenue by this amount, then our focal point is going to take our two salespeople to get out there and find the money to help us to get measurable tax revenue that we can bring into the city that will support some of the needs of the city. But if we don't know that, I think that we just continue to say, well, should we dip into the reserve to do this? And if we're only moving like this instead of like this, that's a problem, right? Right.

So the only other thing I was going to say just about the finance, just so I understand this, the five-year plan, is this going to be a financing plan to show us ways to fund some of these capital projects that we know we have to do, like the storm, the wastewater plant, we're going to have something that shows us we're not going to finance this through taxes. We're going to do it through an obligation bond or a bond or whatever. So the five-year capital plan, we actually have, it just hasn't been robust as we've been waiting for our studies to add our future needs that are on there. But we have stuff already out to 2028.

Everything that we put on our plan, we identify our intended resource. This is intended to be funded with impact visa. This is intended to be funded with money we have set aside in the capital project plan. Or we're recommending for this one that we need to go and look at bonding as a resource.

So yes, that is part of it. Awesome. Okay, we're way over time. Cliff, can you wrap up?

I can. The question I have for you is, I know we've got Brandon, and Brandon could be anywhere from 30 to 60. Still have a number of these to do. Do you want us to come back or do you want us to just use the next half hour to get through what we get through?

We're expecting lunch about 11:30. Parks. We've already talked about parks and planning next on the list. Yeah, I think we're going to get there one word or the other, right?

So, I think it might be easier to come back if anything we have. We're already going to address it through some of these other conversations. Exactly. We've got planning, a tour's office, a special event, cemetery, water.

We've already addressed. I've addressed almost every one of those. Yeah. So I think I'm good.

Yeah, because what we have left is the parks, planning, and, um, and, you know, water utility stuff, but. Which we've already been talking about. And we have time this afternoon to come back and hit some. Yeah, okay.

And we might think of other things as we're talking through some stuff. So I think it'd be good to have a wrap up later anyway. Yeah, no, I'm fine. And next question.

And if you have other things, send me an email. Yeah. So. I'll send a text.

I don't read text. I'm kidding. Okay. So Brandon will give us an update on housing and population growth.

Now, this will not include the housing audit. So that's, that's in the works. It's not include the housing. It's not a full housing audit yet.

Audit. You know, cause we're working on audit. It gives us a whole report. Uh, like me, like telling us number of units.

Yeah. We'll, we'll give you what we can. And then, and then anything you want beyond that, let us know. And, and, and we'll dive into it.

Okay. And then I, I need a restroom break, but I'll just go ahead. Let's take, let's take a quick break. Yeah.

Let's just take five minutes. That was a good time. There's bathrooms upstairs too, in the same spot. So not the same spot as this, but the same spot as the bathroom.

Jared needs a drink of the month Hannah. You don't let me box you around. And I said it's for you. So.

Yeah. You should put a tits jar on your desk. Don't worry. There will be a tits jar on your desk.

This isn't the only drink. I'm going to have a drink of the month. Not this month. Because I'm going to have a drink of the month.

Yeah. I'm going to have a drink of the month. Don't worry. There will be a drink of the month.

I'm going to have a drink of the month. Not this month. Because nobody's got back to me. But usually there is a drink of the month.

What are you waiting there? I don't know what it's called. It's good. I don't know what it's called.

Do you have it before? Yes. It's called the Councilman Gray. Yes.

That's what we need. A little menu of our drinks. Our chosen drinks. Donald is going to take a Diet Mom and do with mango puree.

It's nice to know what mine is, but with sugar. The rest is great. Mango puree. About what?

Oh, yeah. How are you? What? Are you going to get a drink?

Yeah. You guys need to slap them anymore. Come and get a drink. Do you want Diet Mom and do it?

No. Sugar. It's full of bread. Because I forgot.

I'll talk to him today. I'm trying to work out his table that week so that we can go. Thursday, the- I'm trying so hard. You'll have to just see what GLs she's pointing to.

We need to have more to do it. I can't- Thank you. We had our chamber retreat like two weeks ago and Matt Everett set up a special table just for himself in the back of the room and he's like I'm just going to be over here you guys and the rest of us were sitting like this it was really funny. Can you get your drink orders in?

There's coffee and chocolate and creamer and there's a Keurig over there with all sorts of like little things that they hired. But on the table, they have a big step. I don't know. Hannah, the water guy is here.

What? Yes. Is he just? Yeah, I'm excited to go through.

Did you find the desk over there? Yeah. Oh, because I got baby on the floor? Are you being smart?

It's okay. I know. He's smarter. I know.

Thank you, Jared. I appreciate it. Thank you. Is that all the britches?

Jared, grab that napkin. Is that the Mountain Dew table? Is that where that's where that's where that's where that's where it's? Is that where that's where it is?

Yeah. I know. Thank you, Jared. I appreciate it.

Is that all the britches? Jared, grab that napkin. Is that the Mountain Dew table? Is that where that's where it is?

Is that where it is? Is that where that's where it is? Is that where it is? Yeah.

Is that where it is? Does anybody need anything else? Dr. Miller across the hall, Jared.

The doctor yesterday came here. Yeah. I'll leave any bags. I got a lot of fun.

I'm going to get a special drink now. I'm going to get a little more. I got chips. Does anybody want chips?

And I got fruit snacks. Those snacks are my go-to. Okay. There's a tasty belly.

I'm going to get a little more. There's also candy on top of the fridge over there. If anybody wants candy. Just a little more.

Chocolate. All those are days. I'm going to get a little more. I've done that.

Is it close? Yeah. I think that just gives us the backup. When the state says we don't think that's what it is, then we can say, well, we verified the building permits and utility hookups.

That's what it is. Brokers and developers, there's not actually all this question whether or not our numbers are accurate because they're trying to use the proprietary systems and things like that. So I use multiple servers. also trying to have it.

That's good. What's the state saying? Do they think we're like 48? They're not even close.

Yeah. The census was good. Yeah. Well, by the way, so an update.

I don't think we've heard from Kim Gardner yet, but the state is working with Kim Gardner to work with us specifically because their metrics, their models, their data never match and it's always like a two-year lag or something like that. Yeah. So what the intention is, I'm hoping this works out, is by early December, they're able to produce a report for the state because what they hope the outcome of this would be is find something that works for us, but that they can also replicate throughout the rest of the state. So that's kind of the trick.

So it has to work for both. And so what's nice because oftentimes when we talk to the state and they'll say, Hey, all of you cities, you need to do this. And you know, particularly housing. And I tell them, stop doing that.

You're not talking to the rest of them. You're talking to us. So talk to us on our needs. And so this is an effort to meet that.

It's to try to find something that actually is accurate for our data because our growth patterns and models are not the same as what they've been using in other places. Anyone else? So we're hoping that this connects up. Kim Garg is supposed to reach out to us.

We haven't heard from them yet, but... So you're saying that new legislative policy is going to say, this is what has to be except for Evil Mountain. Yeah. We want an exception clause in every piece of code.

That's how it's going to work. With exception of Evil Mountain. Everybody else. Something like that.

Yeah. So, anyway. Yeah. Just an update.

Does anyone remember what the MGT data had us at as far as residential units specifically? MGT? Yeah. I'll pull it up.

Because I'm wondering what that growth. That would have been a 2022 number. And, of course, with our surplus and whatever, that's school history and stuff. But I'm just curious.

I think they had us at 60,000. I would think it was 57. They had it by households, not by number of population. But we can still derive that number out of us.

That's what I'm wondering. So we have 16,252 households. 16,000? Wait.

16,252 residential building permits minus the last seven months. And then we add in the ADUs as well into that. So asking about data that we don't have. ADUs that haven't gotten a permit through the city.

Right. People renting their basement and haven't gone through the permit process. We don't know. And so there's likely additional people that we haven't accounted for.

So that doesn't change the taxable value. That's what I was trying to figure out how this would equate with the taxable. Oh. MGT didn't have it broken out by city.

It had it broken out by region. It was 38,000 households for the West. We're at 16,000. We're 50% of that.

And we know Saratoga. We have some bigger than Saratoga. That's about right. Yeah.

We should be 55%. It's probably lower. I wonder what that add is. So anyway, I digress.

Okay. We know. Forgive you. My own information up there.

You can see the growth rate. It's a little bit. I think it's a little bit. It's a little bit.

I think it's a little bit. You can see the growth rates. The growth rates for the north and south areas. They're on the bottom.

It changed a little bit some a year ago. Especially the south area. The south area is just really, really, really moving right now. So.

And just a couple of a few interesting graph pieces of demographic data for you. Where did you get that information for living in the same house? This is all from the census. Census.

Yeah. This is all census data. Yep. They do their yearly ACS study.

It would be great if we could somehow get the Utah Realtors Association to work with us on providing the number of houses that have been sold in our city. Yeah. With comparison that are existing. That would help us to understand our turnover rates as well.

Yeah. Absolutely. That we know. You know, that percentage could be more concise.

It would be helpful. Are we retaining our citizens? Or are we more of a transient city? Right.

Yeah. Well, and the question too is, is it transient in certain houses? Or are there people coming and moving in? Yeah.

They could absolutely do it by area. Right. I think that that might be data. We should see if there would be one to share it.

Well, when we were just talking about data, another conversation I had at Tuesday's school board meeting. I'll go back to school. Is that it's an interesting demographic change when you're talking about households that we, 20 years ago, you got married, you moved out, you had your own house. Now they're asking how many families live in a household.

Up to three. You know, usually siblings or whatever. But especially in the 10% foreign. Yeah.

You know, I would guess, I know a few of the foreign families in our neighborhood and every one of them have multiple. Yeah. Multi-generational homes. Yeah.

Multi-generational homes in our neighborhood are white. I'm not talking about that demographic. I'm talking about our culture as a whole, including white, everyone. I know the non-English speaking homes.

But I'm saying it's also, in every household, it's becoming a issue. So when we're talking about living in the same home or high school graduate or whatever, how many of those households are actually multiple unit households, if that's the right way to say it, compared to what it used to be 20 years ago, where we all moved out? We're talking about us. Yeah.

I know. It's changed. I think it's okay. Is there a way for us to encourage that information where, I mean, there's not going to be a penalty?

I mean, we obviously have people who have applied for the ADUs, right? Right. There's a lot of people who, to Jared's point, it's become an ADU because they're adult children who are married. But it's not an ADU if it's your children because it's all the same family.

That's true. So they wouldn't even have to get a permit for that. No, no. I'm not talking about the permit.

I'm just talking about how many families per unit we're actually talking about because that impacts that 4.38 or whatever you're at. It's actually probably higher than that. Well, and I'm curious if it impacts our income per household because, of course, a lot of the programs we start according to Care Housing, when they talk about average household income, is that talking about on title or is it talking about the other four families that live there? Right, right.

That's what they want. I'm wondering, we have two other surveys we need to do with on-pointed sites. Yeah. And I'm wondering if maybe we could collect data through one of those surveys, do that with housing.

Find out how many ADUs we actually have. Yeah. Well, not just ADUs, but also the multi-generational families. They may not be willing to share that data if they know they didn't need to permit for it.

So, FYI. We can have ADU amnesty. Yeah. It's just an interesting point I'm putting out.

I think it goes back to our household and also our population number. Right. To your point, Steve, is there something that we can do that would help people who have gone that direction because they have to face it when they sell their house. We do something.

Yeah. We, I can't remember the details. We charge very little to get a permit and we go in and we do have to drill a few holes in their wall to put in a little camera to see what the installation is and the electrical. That would be a great outreach.

That's what I was just going to say. We should do some PSA on that. That would be so great to tell them, we know that when you go to sell your house, one of the things that people are going to ask is, did you permit your basement? Yeah.

We have a plan to help you out with this. It's a minimal cost for this. This is what we're going to do. Reach out to us and we'll help you to get into compliance.

And then there's like a huge influx of permit. One of the things that helps us with the data too. Oh, I totally agree. I mean, that might be a great way to keep on some of that.

So thanks for that information. That's great. We do a pretty quick review on those. I mean, we try to get, go through a good enough review to make sure that we're, we're looking for trouble signs, but not spending a ton of time on it.

So I think we're, we're set up to, to get from pretty quick. Just so I know is, did somebody take that note down? So that's something we talked about. Cause I think that would be super helpful.

You're talking about helping, helping with existing. I know that will help you to get in compliance. But that data also helps us in knowing how many PDU we actually have. I'll work with Tyler to get something going out there.

Cause that's a good thing. Plus I want to drive my Cobra crash. That's a good one. Thank you.

Um, here's a building permit trends for 98 to 2004. And obviously you can see the dip from the pandemic and inflation, but the thing I like here is seeing the residential permits, uh, after they kind of bottomed out a bit or really starting to come pick back up. Well, we're getting close, close. We're like only two down from the highest we've ever been.

Yeah. Bottomed out at eight 68. I don't even call that a bottom. Right.

You know, what's funny is there's other cities that have like a hundred a year and they think they're a real big deal. Yeah. Like it's just like, Oh cute. Yeah.

We're at 1190 and that's still two more months to go. Yeah, exactly. We may. Cause honestly, uh, Firefly is really picking up steam right now.

Do you feel like that this is, uh, just a trend of builders trying to finish out their inventory? Or do you feel like that this is kind of an upward swing now where we're going to see, it's not going to increase like that. I mean, that's almost double, right? We're heading towards double digits from previous, but do we feel like that we're going to see that continued climbing or do we feel like there's a plateau coming?

Can I give you an anecdotal data point while you're thinking of your answer? We have builders and different things that come to the chamber and say we're coming into the community or they've existed in the community and they've taken on a whole different development. We're seeing that over and over and over in the last 30 days that they're, cause they're gearing up to just explode with growth. So now like that's just an anecdotal business point, but yeah, I think so.

I mean, obviously Firefly's taking off now, but I mean, we've had Fulte Homes coming in here, sniffing around the community, looking for places to invest in there. I think they, was it Sunset Flats there they want to take over and then, uh, They're looking at Eagle Quest. Eagle Quest. And Meritage Homes took over a whole different development.

Yeah. Harmony, uh, we have Fieldstone, uh, looking to take over a big chunk of Harmony. So we definitely got a lot of active home builders. Which you're probably looking at more of a model of sustained growth than finishing off.

I mean, I know I use my own neighborhood as an example, like flagship just went game busters. Yeah. And I, I, you guys know this cause you guys produced, get the building from this, but they did like 30. Yeah.

All right in a row. I mean, it was like production from the eighties. Right. Where suddenly every hole was dug.

Every house was out and down and they were done with them in three or four months. Yeah. And speaking of flagship, that's another company. They, they tried to, uh, they came up with the concept plan this week to, uh, the planning commission for, uh, 200 acres of development.

Not the best spot though. It's, it's across the way. They want to do residential across the way from the sewer treatment plan. And, uh, anyway, they, they are looking around though.

So, but their parkway fields is exploding. So flagship continues to do that throughout the community, but that's the one that by far has built the most in the past year is parkway fields. So they've just shifted from silver Lake and now they're. You're going to see that here.

I think part of that is the six, the six year exploration of the NBA. I think that that's at least contributed to it because that kind of hasn't been lost until they weren't doing that. That's really where they focus. But the houses aren't sitting there selling crap.

No, they are. Yeah. That's demand. Tons of demand.

They also have the ability to give incentives that nobody else does. So they're competing with the existing market that only they can. They're giving discounts and seven foot buy downs and they're giving, you know, free title work and all that kind of thing. Cause I mean, there's margin.

They have the margin to do that. That's how they're dealing with it. It's not affordable. And here's a quick snapshot of, I mean, this kind of follows along that.

I've done a few data. This is, it follows along with what we've seen historically is the residential growth. No, that's the number of permits. Yes.

That's not number of units. 73% of the house of our residential growth is single family. No. Not landmass or something like that.

That's not true. Yes, for this year. That's this year. That's not the total percentage of that.

This year. That's just for this year. But I think it's important that we recognize that that multi-family units are up by at least 10%. So I think it's important to recognize the trend is that we're building more multi-family units than we are single family units.

You say last year it was around 17%. And that's part of why, well, according to 2019 data, and that's part of why I asked for some of the data that I did. Because I think it's really important to look, we're 15% total inventory. So I think it's important to recognize that we've been building almost double and under multi-family units that we have in our existing inventory homes.

So it's moving in that direction. Yeah, it is. But the thing is, when I was on council the very first time and Steve made the first chart of this, it was only ever 14% multi-family. So I don't think the percentage has shifted that much over the last eight years.

I'm just telling you, when you start to look at trends, what you're seeing is we're building a larger percentage of multi-family homes in Eagle Mountain, and the 2024 data bears that out, than what we have in our current inventory. I just think it's important when we're planning and we're talking about those things that we recognize that there's a shift that's occurring there. And then we have our inventory. If you take every home that's built in our city today and we say we have 16,000 homes, 15% of them are multi-family.

If you look at last year, one in seven was single-family and three, or one in ten, excuse me, seven out of ten were single-family and three were multi-family. I just think it's important to recognize the shift and recognize that there's a lot of multi-family units that are entitled that all they have to do is come get permits for, and we haven't been using that in our calculation. Because the narrative that you hear is that Eagle Mountain is largely single-family homes. Although that is true currently, it's not where we're going to be when those units that are entitled come online and are built, and I think we need to know that.

Yeah, if we need to build another single application and we've built only what's entitled, that's going to swing around. That number's going to keep shifting upward toward the multi-family. I just think it's important that you recognize the trends. Because that's what everybody will tell you.

No, you're just largely a single-family home community. Maybe what's built, that could be said and be a true statement, but not what's online or available to be built. But that's where the veteran community is anyway. We're not on a corridor, so that's our argument.

Well, I'm not even, I just think it's important that you have data points that you have to think around that pulse, right? Yeah. I think that's important too. Do we not have the data of the breakdown of what's vested?

Because we have other, is that in your side too? Yeah. Okay. All right.

TBD, guys. I'll be quiet. We've got a lot of good stuff with percentages. So very interesting figures here.

And you've seen this. You're right, Councilman, right, that you can see that 27 versus 15 historically there, or 15 from what's existing. You can see the, how the, you've got the. Yeah, it's flipped.

Yeah, it's definitely flipped. So north is, again, got a 1.7% growth rate, whereas we've got a 17.4% for the south. Where are we delineating that line? Is that like basically Unity Pass?

Yeah. It's our service area based on our sewer. So Arrival and this one that's across the highway, those are all still north. Yeah.

Arrival for sure is. Yeah. And then Pole Canyon South? Yeah.

Or it's going to be. We did calculate where, so the percentages of population in our north, south, and then I threw in the west as well in looking at the data. We don't have much for the west yet because Firefly doesn't have anything really occupied yet, but we're currently, you may be showing this, I don't know, 57% in the north, 40% in the south, 3% in the west. And then what's the build out of the north area?

Are we 80% built out or how much existing, how much additional land really is? If you're building across the community, you basically have that land that's west of Sage Valley, west of Sage Valley, and Superfest Ranch. We don't have that number for you today, but. Yeah, I don't have that.

We could look into that, but I'm. I mean, compared to the old original ranches, mass development area, I think that's mostly built out. Mostly built out. Circle Five Ranch, Porter's Crossing, town center area.

The annexed area west of. There's a lot of annexation to west of Arrival, right, and Sage Valley, but not much. And by the Walmart area that, there's still a little bit there. So we're heading towards build up with that.

Right. This growth's definitely slowed down there. As far as ADUs go, we're trending up on this one. We had 115 last year, and now we've got 134.

Do you know those are individuals with existing homes that are applying for those, or are those part of the new builder ideology of adding the ADU as part of the building? I don't have that in front of me, but from what I've seen in the past, and I've looked at it, a lot of it's new builds with an ADU are a small part of that. A lot of times it's people who are coming in and wanting. Yeah.

I know Parkway Field is doing that. I know R5 is doing that over in the Pacific Springs or whatever it's called now. Right. Area.

I think that is the trend of the technical part. I'm wondering how many people are exercising the business or doing the ADU for existing homes. If we're seeing them coming to apply for building permits. I'm trying to remember what we… And do they have to apply for two?

No. So they have to apply for their house and the ADU within their house when they're building brand new? Yeah, exactly. The ADU permits.

Yeah. Got it. I just wanted to know if they were… Are they doing separate utilities for those? No.

Do they have two meters? They're not required to. Okay. So it's still a single meter.

Okay. Now that I'm thinking back to the data from yesterday… Actually, I think there might be more of that than I alluded to. Because I think there were single digits of attached and detached… Well, I can remember there was attached and detached ADUs. There were single digits, but as far as like in the house, that's where the majority of those 115 from last year came from.

Okay. So probably there are a fair number of those that are coming from those ADU situations. I just had a thought about this. Because when we talk about the impact of utilities, and maybe somebody can answer this question for me.

If we have one meter, that is going to skew the usage for a single-family home when you have upstairs and downstairs using water as two separate families. That'll skew the rest of the data because, you know, what a normal family of whatever, we think that's a 4.38 or whatever. And now we have next door that really is eight. Yeah.

Is there a reason that we don't want to have multiple meters? I know originally we prohibited multiple meters for those, at least our code. Is it a bad idea to do that? Why did somebody just tell me?

I'll tell you why. I think it's a bad idea to do that. Because I think that what you want is accountability for property ownership. So whoever owns the home has to live in it to have an ADU as a secondary owner occupied.

And that requires that that homeowner is the one who's on the utilities and manages that. From my perspective, that's a control or a fuel that we should use to help make sure that those ADUs are being used as a secondary, a secondary space, rather than splitting the home into a... I get that part of it too, but to the part where we're trying to figure out the impact on sewer and water. How do we, how do we collect that data then if we don't know?

And that can skew our overall numbers when we're trying to figure averages and things like that when they're trying to say, okay, our average only deepening amount is consuming this amount, which is not necessarily true next year when the people move out of the basement. But we figured it in our, I can see you shaking your head. It's something that needs to be looked into. I know TSSD is struggling with ADUs because what's going to happen is any infrastructure that has to be built to facilitate, that's going to go back on rate payers and not that impact fee.

So that is something that needs to be addressed. I don't have any answer. I just want to ask this question. Does anybody have some ideas or maybe this is some kind of workshop, not necessarily right now, of how we might incentivize those people to let us know they have two units so that it doesn't negatively impact them?

Maybe there's some benefit that can happen so we get the data from that. It doesn't skew all of our data and we're overcompensating or widely undercompensating for what that usage is going to be. Maybe that can be dealt with with the program to get them to come and get their ADU permitted. And maybe it's a benefit to us to not charge very much at all because the benefit we get from it helps us with water and sewer.

We're not charging for ADU permits currently, are we? Yeah, we do. It's like 25 bucks. I'm talking about existing ones that already exist that will come in and help them get it permitted.

That helps us to recognize where they already exist and that will help with this data as well. And so maybe it's the consideration of a sewer fee, an additional sewer fee, or an additional water fee that's associated with the address of that. I mean, that might be a way that you could help recover some of those additional costs. Isn't it?

It's just kind of akin to, like, trying to capture road dollars for, like, electric cars kind of. They have impact, right? Yeah. Well, if they're using more because we measure sewer and the sewer fee based off of what the water was kind of a thing, wouldn't they automatically be paying more because they're using more?

That would be one way. But we had a flat rate before and it was just that. It was different, but. We don't have a robust utility system that gives us that kind of information, though, right?

We don't have a permitted home that has an ADU and that their sewer rates will higher. I mean, I think those are all options that we've discussed. We don't need to solve the problem today, but. Or, like, a little surcharge.

I think what Mack was saying, too, with the ADUs, it's the impact, right? So, you have a trunk line that's facilitated or sized upon this much sewage, and then all of a sudden you end up with an additional thousand ADUs. What can that generate? If we have a builder that's just up front and says we're building ADUs as part of it, then perhaps the standards need to be changed for that development.

It would have to. It should be accounted for. The conversation at TSSD is basically any home, every home could be an ADU. Yep.

So, should the new standard be that we just prepare for that eventuality? Well, then they're doubling the cost of that for that eventuality. What we can't do for sure right now with state legislation is charged an impact fee for internal ADUs. We're prohibited from doing that.

It's unfortunate. For internal. Is that something we should be working with our lobbyists to help educate? Because it's not.

Probably external. It's one of those things that are absolutely not figuring into that equation. Well, and I know that. You're not figuring into a family that has eight kids.

Yes. They're doing a lot of their laundry. Yeah, but that's more of an outlier, I think, than people that are going to end up with ADUs. Well, it's more of these days, sure.

But, I mean, there's just no magic wand that's going to tell us how many people are in the household. Well, and maybe instead of us charging a fee, maybe we approach the legislature and say, is there additional funds that could be used to help upsize communities that are more AD friendly to get some of those things? Well, I think the key is, it's just an idea of ways to do that, rather than based on a unit or permit, based on a number of bathrooms or a number of toilets. We've talked about that before, if you have multiple things, but again, you're just going down a rabbit hole.

Yeah. Okay. Brandon's on slide four. I just wanted to ask that question.

I didn't mean to have that slide on there. I think that's something I would like to figure out. Some of the same issues that we deal with, though, is the state considers taking each lot over 6,000 square feet and saying, we're going to allow you to build two units on that. I mean, the infrastructure is not built for it, and the cities aren't equipped with the resources to service that.

Nor are we charging the unit. Exactly. I think there's some talk, going back to something you just said, I think there's some talk on the Hill about maybe not having impact case for detached as well. I think there's a bill coming that's based on a part, so it's a lot of detached cases as well.

Well, we're going to have a meeting on January 8th with a number of other municipalities. That kind of information would be super helpful for us to come because Kim, Dale, will be at that meeting. Right. I mean, it's a good opportunity for us to say to him, hey, this is the negative impact.

By not including these things, we're eating the cost of it, and it's driving down our ability to service this. Sorry, Brandon. Hey, no problem. Go on.

I like your presentation. It's actually a really good thing for us to bring up at our next regional council meeting that we have. Can you hear me? That's what I'm talking about.

Okay, good, good, good. Sorry. Commercial permits, obviously, have been impacted by some of the inflation and things that have occurred. But I know we've had some, I know, Evan, you've had some really good discussions with some good commercial outfits, and we're hoping to see that number start trending up.

It will. Absolutely. So, and Steve kind of alluded to this a little earlier, heartwave building. Oh, that's a show.

Yeah. Excellent. I'm sure Firefly is going to be, like, pretty high up there next week if you guys see this. So, I'm going to dive into this just really quickly.

Obviously, Eagle Mountain, I don't think it's any surprise. We're really growing just below Lehigh there, a few hundred, less than Lehigh, but with a bigger percentage change. July 1st, 2023, was 58? That's what they're saying.

That's a U.S. census data, right? Or, no, it's CHEM-C. Yeah, but they're wrong.

They're two years behind. CHEM-C is obviously off, and the census is even worse. Yeah. A little bit more data from CHEM-C.

We can take it. We obviously know there are limitations, but it does help to kind of see us in comparison with some of the other cities in the state and area. So, I want to get to this vested unit data because I think there's a lot of this will kind of -- It will definitely trigger some good discussion. We have 52 square miles, and 30 of it's already vested.

So, we've got 20-ish square miles to still plan out, and so we're working right now on -- Do you know the breakdown of the residential of that 20 to 22 square miles that's left? How much that's residential? I know there's a square mile -- well, you can look at the sections up there of the industrial, business complex, and commercial. How much of that 22 square miles is still residential?

Yeah, that's a really good question. Actually, I just -- I don't have that for you today, but I do have access to data that might answer some of that for you. If you would guess, most of the residential is vested. Yeah.

Right. We've got GSBS who's working on the future land use map, and then it's giving us some data that helps us with some of that mix. So, I'm real happy. You'll be seeing that data soon, here in the next month or two.

It would have been sooner if it weren't for -- So, I say that for this interesting point. A lot of people are always telling us, oh, we're jealous you have a white canvas. Not really. 30 miles -- our residential is already vested.

Yeah. It's paid by number. It's not blank. Yeah.

It's vested. I mean, what we have with blank is a little bit of business campus and commercials. Yeah. We -- previous councils or whatever, a lot of stuff.

Yeah. And you're absolutely right. I mean, currently, we already have 23,000 vested units. Unbuilt.

And then if you add the already platted that's platted lots that Steve talked about, we're almost able to -- we either have -- we have 40,000 vested or platted units in the city. So, pretty -- pretty amazing. Vested or unbuilt. 40,000, Brett.

That's the number you're talking about. And how much of that's multifamily compared to -- Yeah. And I can show you that. Vacant lots, that's going down a little bit.

Last time you got this, it was in the 1100s. So, it's going down. Just a quick snapshot of where these vested units are in the north area. And you can -- you can see with like -- so, we've talked a little bit about multifamily units.

You can see that lower Hidden Valley, you've got a -- you'll see quite a bit of that. Across Porter's Crossing, quite a few vested units. The same with upper Hidden Valley. So, a lot of vested units still -- we still have quite a bit of -- quite a few units up north that haven't been built yet.

Is Clearview the States on the north side of the highway? Yeah. It's south. It's the highway.

Right by arrival. It's the part that they built. And the school. Yeah.

I think this is helpful, too. We -- so, you can see the total -- this is broke down by unit type. So, you've got numbers plus percentages as well. So, you can get a little bit of a look at how the -- what percentage each one of these housing types, what percentage it makes up for that total 100%.

Notice, for instance, you know, you look at the survey that we sent out. And I've done two of the -- I've done surveys with two different communities now. And everybody wants single-family homes. But the one attached -- attached product that people are comfortable with is townhomes.

So, we've got 11% of that up in the -- in the north. And -- and -- as far as like -- That's 1% on the way. Yep. I -- actually, when I prepared this, I thought of you, Jared.

Because I'm like -- I'm like, Jared's going to -- Jared's going to -- Jared's going to -- When I -- I was sitting there in my office last night, I'm like, Jared's going to not like this. That's just in the north. .7 percent. That's in the north.

Just the north, Eric. This is just the north. Well, how -- yeah, but let's put the -- you have 4.5 percent. Because they're all built, Jared.

That's a lot. You have a lot. Let's say -- so, just another way to look at the remaining vested units. Upper hidden and lower hidden valley.

So, there's still quite a few lots to come there. . I guess -- Here's a quick look at the south area. So, you can see -- Can I ask a question?

Sure. Can anybody jump in? Because this might be just a totally naive comment. Is there any way that we can -- I don't want to say force.

Encourage. That's a good word. Or incentivize a builder to complete a development before they start a new development somewhere else in the city. One thing we had talked about with our -- this is one possible angle to kind of get to that.

And that's a utility growth boundary. Explain that. It's kind of set a utility -- a boundary around the city based on where the utilities are and it doesn't expand until the utilities are provided. They have to come in and -- Oh, so we don't end up with weird islands?

Weird islands. That's what I'm worried about. Yeah, because, I mean, we have a number of builders that are literally building in different parts of the city and haven't finished the other developments and then are starting an island somewhere else. Yeah.

Like, yeah, I mean, I think that's a good conversation to have because it's hard to service them. It's hard for streets. It's hard for our first responders. It's hard for, you know, sewer to do that when everything's like this.

There's no continuity to anything. We're driving, you know, I don't know how many miles it is that you guys got to drive from one of the cities to this island and then there's not anything necessarily on the way. You do that and then you got to go to the other end to deal with that. There's some continuity and that would be super helpful to our services to be able to better serve, I think.

You could, like, set it up so that, like, when somebody comes in, you know, with their rezone and general plan amendment that once they've kind of satisfied, you guys are on board, maybe that that urban, that growth boundary, the utility growth boundary gets amended at the same time, I guess, once they've demonstrated they've... I'm going to ask you, we're going to have a talk about that so I fully understand. Because I think anything that we can do to get them to complete their development before going and starting a new development in the city would be helpful. Because it doesn't leave open ground everywhere, that is also, you know, now we're dealing with weeds that belong to a private owner.

Yeah. They ask for a reason when they come to you. You'd say, well, you have this project going, you didn't finish it, why are you asking? That's what I'm looking for.

Yeah. I love it. You guys bring it up when... But does that start to flow with the 180-day courtroom and, like, they sell property guys, that's what I worked at.

There's a new law about that, actually. Again, starting a new development when they haven't finished an old development. Or do you guys... They're separate from each other, though.

But you guys say, like, what? Well, no. I mean, you say, look, we have concerns about granting a reason for the new development. Because you seem like you've stretched yourself too thin and you haven't finished the old development.

So what if I could send a different guy in? Well, again, what do you mean a different guy? Like... I'm Phil Stone Homes and XYZ...

Yeah, but do you not know it's Phil Stone Homes that's going in? I mean, could they set up a shell company or something? A shell company. That's exactly what they all do.

So how do you stop that? No. I mean, they don't... I mean, you know it's coming from a particular developer.

You assume. No. They did that. I mean, to their point, it did happen.

We had... That happened in Silver Lake. Yeah. The eastern portion of those flagship Phil Stone and three others.

And they called themselves five something whatever. It was something like that. So yeah. But to Marcus's point, everybody knew who it was.

Yeah, but I don't think you can hold up an application legally on its own merits. You can say, nah, I'm not going to rezone this. Let's... Based on its own merits, not based on you have another project.

You are never obligated to rezone a project. On its own merits, not based on... In DAG zones, you can say, nah, I'm not going to rezone it. I don't think it's appropriate at this time.

It's creating an island, a utility island. Yeah. But not based on the previous project. Based on your merits.

Well, no. You can base it on this. Yeah, I don't think you're the right person to do this. I'm not persuaded that you can do this.

You haven't finished what you promised before. That's what I'm asking. Again, do you have discretion whether or not to rezone? You can always say no.

Fair enough. I mean, and I think you obviously do say no sometimes. So when flagship comes in and they want, I don't know who here watches how about your mother, but they want to build a Dolby's and Treatment neighborhood, and downwind of the sewage treatment plant. Yeah.

You know, and you, yeah, you'll be like, no, we're not going to do that. Like, and you don't, and, you know, yeah, we get it that to the north of this, there is some vested residential commercial, but this is, you're too close now. You know, at this point, you can say, oh, look, this creates a utility island. No.

Don't want to do that. Don't want to rezone it. Oh, yeah. We're not, we're not comfortable that you're actually going to be able to carry out your promises that you're making to us today.

So we're not going to do this. There was this. Because in the past, you haven't called, you haven't called for any promises. Like, you have this project that's largely unbuilt to me.

Now, you look at Lower Bend Valley, they come in, and one of the first things that I did on the job was work with them to amend their development agreement. And here we are almost two years later, and I don't know if they've done anything. It was such an urgent thing. It was such an urgent thing that they fired the guy, because they didn't get the development agreement amended timely.

And here we are two years later, I'm going to say, don't I? I mean, like, that's good information. Thank you. There was, we're going to have to look, Marcus, I think there, I recall a code amendment that kind of seemed to try to get at that idea of, well, how do I say this?

Basically, it kind of tied the city's hands a little bit in trying to stop another developer from moving in. You didn't have to stop it? Yes, I think there was a state code amendment that basically ties our hands a little bit in stopping them from moving on to a subsequent development. But the reality is, we're not trying to prevent roads.

Right. We're trying to prevent irresponsible roads that puts an undue burden on the city. And we've dealt with that. Everybody here knows that we literally were existing as two different cities that we created two different islands of service areas for.

Yeah. It was incredibly expensive to service it like that. You know, and we're meeting in the middle. But when people want to, again, go find an island in the middle of nowhere to build a new thing, we should be able to say, hey, we've been down this road before.

And it's not a benefit to us, especially if you can't finish it. So now we have, you know, a hundred residents here with nobody else around them. The services weren't completed. They didn't get the roads completed.

They didn't get the park in place, all those things. And we have like, you know, 26 homes that are sitting here in the middle of nowhere that we didn't protect. By the way, this does touch on one of my committee concepts that we can talk about. Yeah.

So just so everybody knows, food is here. It is hot. It is getting cold. So what would we like to do?

Let's bring it in here and eat. Let it finish. Yeah, he could present during lunch. But we have an activity to do as well that Natalie and Terry.

Whatever you want me to do. Okay. Does that work for him? How much for you at, Graham?

Ten more minutes, probably. Yeah. Let's go finish. Okay.

I was trying to sell you Jared with ten, but... You can go out that way or you can wash it up. The photo. By the way, if you want anything off that back counter, get it now because Laura and Chaz are going to clean that up.

I can't get back. We probably need to move this off. I got six. Just come right here.

She said it get out. All the food is served out here. I sent you a picture. Oh, shoot.

No, I didn't get that. Can I send you a microphone? Okay. I'm sorry.

But we might be able to add you to the camera. I'm interested in those. Yeah. Could you do this in one place?

Yeah. Okay. We can add you to the... Okay.

I'm going to hang this up over there so we know who to choose from. Corey, remind me. Your administrative servicing of this program. Yeah.

Okay. Cool. Dude, I'm excited for you. It's going to be so cool.

Oh, okay. Yeah. I sent them... You know what?

It may be a little bit of a slow roll, but like... Unless you want to just like... Yeah. Unless you want to just like...

Yeah. Unless you want to borrow my... So you'll tell them like... Or you can just borrow my...

Just do it that way. Yeah. We can record you. Good job, everyone.

Hi. Congratulations. Good day. Thank you.

Well... Well done. All right. Brandon, give me a little word.

It's like you're the one talking in the back of the stage. One moment. Brad's fitness school is kind of... Pretty...

It's pretty accurate. I didn't use anything. As we get chastised, you want to start delaying them? No.

You're good. I puffed in there. I think we're kind of encouraging both people. Just thought for the skills.

Um... So... Vested units in Eagle Mountain. Um...

You can see this... This is by subdivision. You can see the different... Types.

You can see... Just the total... Number of units coming from Overland. Uh...

And... Uh... Firefly. There's massive amounts of...

Of units in the south that are... That are yet... Yet to be built. And I think...

I like this one just a bit more. So this one has percentages on the bottom. And I changed it to... Uh...

Changed the color. So hopefully it's a little more. It's not red. That's not a good color for seeing things.

So... Still the same. Yeah. But there's...

No... No change in the data. But... No red here.

I think... The thing that would be good to know... Yeah. Is...

The percent of... Built... In each of these things... Yes.

By type. Right. Ongoing. That shows us...

What is being built. We can work on that. I think that would be a helpful metric. Especially again...

As we're having these conversations with the state. Yeah. And they're saying... You're not doing enough.

And we can say... Really? Because if you look at what we're saying... They're coming in.

They're entitled to this. And they're not building this product first. They're building this product first. I agree with you.

Because... You're saying... You're not doing enough. And we're saying...

That's all that's being done. Well... This time we come back to you... With a similar presentation...

We'll make sure we have... There might be some helpful information for everybody. I agree. Absolutely.

It would be good for staff... Honestly... But... Again...

I think it's no surprise to see... That... You know... Forty percent of our...

Our... Vested units are... Around a quarter acre... And...

You've got the... Under... Well... You can see...

Basically... Twenty-five percent... We've got those platted... Forty...

That are... Remaining... So... That kind of corresponds with our...

Twenty... Twenty-two thousand... Vested... Units...

And then... Forty thousand... Vested... Plus...

Plattens... So... I think there's no surprise... On...

On the mix there... Um... And I think that... Jared's well aware that...

Of the... Number of... Uh... One acre plus...

So... Um... Condos... And townhomes...

Though... There is a fair number of... Of condos... Remaining...

We have... Uh... Looks like... Just under...

Two thousand of those... Coming... Pretty quick... Along with...

Townhomes... Um... Just under... Three thousand...

So... Are those all in... Parkway... No...

Carlos... No... There's a few in... Uh...

Forty thousand... And then you've got some... In pinnacles... As well...

In pinnacles? Yeah... Okay... And then...

Uh... So here's another way to look at the data... As well... So...

Again... You can see... Firefly... Over the lens...

Where you're gonna see... Most of your... Multi-family... So...

And that's mostly townhomes... Right... Not condos... Yeah...

Yep... Exactly... Most of it... I mean...

Again... There's almost... Uh... What is it...

It's almost... 1800... Condos... That are...

That are part of that... Roughly... What is it... About...

3500... Or so... And... Uh...

Here's your current population... So... The... Single-family...

Detached... This is built... And... Vacant...

Final-platted... Blocks... So... This does give you...

A little bit of an idea... Of what... Kind of the mix between... Single-family...

Attached... Versus... Detached... Um...

And... Along with that... Kind of that... Built...

Over 80% of our housing stock... Is... Single-family... Uh...

Detached... If you see on the bottom there... That's 75,849... That's basically saying...

Okay... If all... If all of our vacant lots... Were occupied...

That's what our population would be today... It would be almost 76,000... So... So we have enough...

Uh... Platted blocks currently... To hit 70... The 76,000...

Population... And then... Uh... You can see...

We've got... Uh... Just a... A ton...

Of... Single-family... Less than... Four...

Less than... Four... That are... That are built...

And... That are... Flatly... That's...

Some town of homes... Some condos... And now... This is getting kind of...

Into our vested... And this is where you start... Really seeing the change... Um...

You can see... That... You're kind of seeing... This is like...

Future looking... You're going to see... That we're really... Going to a 70-30...

Uh... Split now... With... Kind of...

Some of the decisions... We've made... With... Of...

Uh... MDAs... And... Rezones...

And so forth... You're... You're looking at a 70-30 split... In the future...

And... With those vested... Uh... Those vested units...

That are remaining worth... We're getting close to... A hundred... Population...

So... And... It's... It's interesting...

That the townhome numbers... Keep... Uh... Invested units...

Those keep... Growing... Yeah... Brandon...

Can I say... I just want to say something about that... Yeah... Because for me at least...

This gives us the raw data... That when we're looking at... New residential development... To say...

Look... We need to look beyond... Where we're at today... Right...

Because... What I keep hearing is... We need to build... The missing middle...

We need to build... The missing middle... Well... The missing middle is on our hook...

To be built... Yeah... It's just... The development community...

Is not building... Fast enough... For our liking... Or for the state's liking...

So I just think... We need to have that... At least in our mindset... When we're looking at...

New residential applications... Yeah... I agree with you... But...

Having that... Information... Of what's been built... Can help us dive into...

Uh... To understand... Why it's not being built... To...

It can start... Forming up... For a bit... Um...

So here's your... Bested units... Another way to... Again...

It's kind of... Similar to this... But just... Other percentages...

You've got... Numbers... Hey Brandon... Sorry...

I had to pull my... The other things... We want to know... Is...

Are they building... I had to come back... And try to... Do that again...

As they get more favorable... Whatever... And I'm gonna tell you... That's happened to us...

Right... Where they come back... And they just keep saying... Oh...

You know... This product isn't selling... So we gotta have this product... And we just keep upping...

That... And I'm gonna say... Like... We don't have high density...

Here... Like... By definition... We have medium density...

It doesn't have impact... On the roads... Right... Because it absolutely does...

Absolutely... But if they're building... Just that product... And they're waiting out...

To put in the... The single family... That they've committed to do... And the commercial...

That they've committed to... To try to find a... A favorable outcome... To change that over...

To the multifamily... That's a problem... Right... But knowing that up front...

And say... Look... You're not building... Any of this other product...

What's the deal? Right... Why aren't we building... Building the rest of it?

Absolutely... We will come back... With... Built numbers...

And I think that'll... Really help with... Analysis... To those points...

Can we get this... Because I know... We have these numbers... From...

Four, five, six years ago... Can we... Eventually have it... So we can compare...

What the... How much has changed... Yeah... No...

This... Compared to... Oh yeah... Yeah...

We can... I found some of our old... Presentations... And we can send them over...

With the whole slide deck then... I just want to see... What... How it's changed...

Because we have... Like an executive summary basically... Yeah... We have the vested...

Numbers from before... I'll take the slide deck... Because I want to be... I will too...

Sure... You got it... So... Um...

Currently... Right now... With... With our combined...

We have... So... 40... Platted...

40,000... Platted... Lots... Existing...

And what's on the books... And we combine that... With what's vested... And not platted yet...

We have... 75,000 people... Currently... So...

We have... Planning... In order to do... To prepare...

For that... That's... If there's not... Multi-generational...

Yeah... If there's not... Do we know... How many of the vested units...

Have water... Attached to them already... Or still need it? Yeah...

I don't have that information... But we can certainly... Explore that... Brandon...

Yeah... Your estimated population... Is... 160...

175... Based on... Platted... Invested...

Mm-hmm... How much... Raw land... Do we still have...

It's not even... In those figures... About... 20...

Uh... 20 square miles... Hold... But that's not why...

That's commercial... Most of that... Is slated... For something else...

Right... And that's why... Those applications... Comes...

Where it's on... A future land use map... As a commercial... Development...

And they say... We want to build... Residential... I think...

This is... Key information... Right... Absolutely...

Um... Again... Here's a... Look at your...

Platted... Invested... And... Uh...

Just... Uh... We've... Got a lot of...

Quarter acre... Or... A lot of... Campbells...

So... I've got a question... Um... For...

Uh... I guess... On this one... You...

You can see the duplex... Duplex and twins... In my neighborhood... We...

Obviously... Single family... But... We've...

Intermixed... The developer... Intermixed a few... Like...

Twin homes... Kind of... Brad... Do you remember...

The idea... Kind of... With a few... Nicely looking...

Duplexes... And... Twin homes... Is that ever...

Something you guys... Want to... See a little bit... More of...

Or... Just looking at... That's not a... Housing...

We have a lot of... Is that something... I'm gonna tell you... I'm not opposed to that...

For that reason... I'm also... That's why I asked about... Condos...

Compared to... Town homes... We do not have a lot of condos... We have a lot of town homes...

Right... So... I'm definitely okay... With sprinkling...

Like... One out of... Seven... Eight...

Yeah... A twin home... In a single family area... Because I think it's a product...

That's valuable... It is... And they're just kind of... Sprinkled in there...

Like... You've got mainly... A really nice street of houses... And then there's like...

Maybe... You know... A few town homes... In one spot...

And it's just sprinkled... Or not... No, no, no... Twin homes...

Just a few... How do you... Regulate... So that they don't do...

Whole streets... You can... You can have a... Because we don't really have...

Anything right now... But you can have a... They do that in Lehigh... Right...

You can do... So they do that in Lehigh... Push this... I sleep out...

My business partner... And... Within... I think it's 600 feet...

Or a thousand feet... There cannot be another... Multi-family... Or a twin home...

Within the 600 foot radius... So there's... There's something like that... That you can do...

I just call it 5%... Do it in a zone... To council member Wood's point... If you're going to allow...

That type of use... You don't want it... All lined up and together... No, they can't be continuous...

You want one here... And one there... Sprinkling... And one there...

So that you don't have... A whole row of... That's what my experience has been... But that was with...

John and Hurricane... They did that with... The vegetation wells... There was proximity...

But within... I think it was 300... Feet... You couldn't have another one...

So I think that... The reason I asked the question is... We don't have it... And if we don't...

They absolutely will come... And line them... Down there... And that's...

That's not a sprinkling... To beat the purpose... Yeah... To beat the purpose...

But... I would be open to... Considering something like that... But I want something...

On the other side... I want the developers... To give us something... Right...

If we're going to... Open ourselves up... To some of that... What are we going to get...

So maybe there's... Some third-acre lots... In that corridor... Right...

It's a trade-off... Right... It creates a diverse community... That we're looking for...

Right... To have different types of housing... That exist in it... But...

They say that to us... And then they say... Well... Here's the townhouses...

Yeah... You know... Here's the 6,000 square foot homes... Instead of...

What we're talking about... We're... Design it in a way... That you have a mix of housing...

That exists throughout there... That's supportive of one another... In fairness... Art zoning...

Does not allow that... Right... I mean... It's important to recognize...

Art zoning is designed... To not allow that... Exactly... And so...

And it was very specifically designed... For that purpose... Because of where we were at... In my opinion...

For it sharing my thoughts... But... If we're going to open ourselves up... To something like that...

And I think we have to be... Very intentional about... What's the upside... Right...

Maybe that's the incentive... To get them to do... The master development agreement... We can't force them...

But that's the care... I... From... My own personal experience...

Of having just that little... Sprinkling of a... Of a few... Fun homes...

In that neighborhood... It... Provides... Some nice looking units...

But they're... They're a little less than... There's some 35,000 square foot homes... Right next to them...

And it provides a little bit... Younger families... And it's kind of nice... As these...

Bigger families mature... We've still got a few... Younger families... That contribute...

And bring some younger kids in... And it's been a... Really nice mix... In the neighborhood...

Honestly... I think socially... It makes a lot of sense... Yeah...

Because it just allows... It allows the diversity... Of... Of economic...

Classes... To live together... In harmony... In one community...

And to live one another... Because some of us... That get a little older... We need some help...

With some of those things... That young people don't... Right... And young people might need...

So... When it creates... If they can find it... Among an old person...

But... Yes... It creates that diversity... So...

Can we ask this question... Two things that came to my mind... With those... Do they have basements...

That could become ADUs... So... Go from a two to a four... That's the first thing...

And the second thing is... Do we restrict them... From being rentals... I don't think you could...

So... Because they're attached... To something else... Doesn't our codes...

Prohibit that... Because you can't put an ADU... In its home... So...

Does a twin home... Fall under that... I think... That drives us back...

That's what I'm saying... He's really just asking... The question... Would we...

Would we be open... To a conversation... About that... Yes...

Conversations... Sure... I'm just asking... Are you...

Looking for the... Unforeseen consequence... Of having them... Or...

Yeah... But... To Brett's point... We can talk about this...

Another... Thank you... Just bring... I think...

Bring that conversation... To a work session... And we'll have... Talk about it...

I've also seen... In our neighborhood... Some of those units... Taken up by people...

Who wanted... Round size... Yep... We've got...

And it's actually nice... Because that's... We have a lot of... Middle aged people...

In our ward... But... Those... Twin homes...

Have actually... Provided us... Some... More senior people...

And it's honestly... Been awesome... To have... Some of those...

Especially... If they're like... Slab on grade... Just like...

Little patio homes... But... That's what I've got... For you...

So... I don't know... What other questions... You have...

But... That's... The water... The situation...

Based on vesting... Because... The council's been having... This conversation...

Of... What do we need... To set aside... As a city...

For commercial... And industrial... So that we have... That...

And jobs... And all those other pieces... So it'd be nice... To know...

What our cutoff is... For how many more... Shares of water... We're gonna sell...

The residential... One of the things... That's... The residential...

And so all that... Stuff's gonna be... Explored... It's gonna be...

Explored... Very soon... So... We will have...

Information on that... In the next few months... So... I think there's a value...

Also... Bringing... With application... The impact...

On shore... Yeah... Water... Like what the...

We anticipate... The user... Consumption... Of this...

Application... This is how much... We have left... Yeah...

This is what our capacity is... If we're talking about sewer... This is the impact... That that's going to have...

On the overall thing... Especially if we're looking... At something that's... You know...

A thousand acres... So that we're looking at it... And saying... Okay...

What point does this... Then put the... Danger... Strain...

On our... Sewer... If we're doing... A thousand...

Three thousand acres... In this development... Kind of thing... So...

A little bit about... The concept plans... And how to make them... More useful...

For you... And making some of... The new... Decision...

We'll explore that... A little bit more... And see... So...

I know this conversation... Will come up in January... But... I want to know...

About the health... Of your department... The health of our department... Uh...

Planning wise... We're... I think... One of the best...

Group of planners... I've ever worked with... Well that goes... About saving...

So... But are you... Understand... I thought you were going to say...

Council member... That's what I thought... That's what we were... Council members...

Yeah... I'll use the BS... On that one... Actually...

I really like... I like you guys... So... We're going to start brushing...

But anyway... No... I do... I enjoy working with you guys...

It's an amazing council... I do... Love... Our planning staff...

I think that... The addition of... A long range... Planning...

Planner... Has been... Like... Hugely helpful...

I mean... Just amazingly helpful... To me... She...

She's part-time... But I knew that... That part-time... Person...

Would end up... Giving me... Like... Basically...

Twice as much... She... Shorts 28 hours... Six hours...

Of quality... And... So... For a long time...

We were all short-handed... Do you think we're... Staff sufficiently... Or are we going to need guys?

That's what I'm... Honestly... Lately... I've been thinking...

We could probably use... Another planner... I think... I'm thinking...

Like... Trouble's bigger than us... But... And they have a bigger...

Planning staff... Yet... They don't have... They don't have this...

Whatever... Yeah... They're not growing like crazy... They don't...

They're dealing with a lot of infill... We're like... Just crazy... You can see the vested units...

And... We really could use... Probably another... Planning staff...

I'm going to go even further... With the question... I'm sorry... If it makes you uncomfortable...

But... Do you feel like... That... The work of the planning department...

That we're able to do that... Or... To Steve's point earlier... We still have so many slashes...

That we're being pulled in other directions... That are impacting our ability... Of the planning work done... Because...

If that's the case... We need to have a separate discussion... About how do we separate... And give you the full...

Time... And staff... Including yourself... Yeah...

To be able to accomplish... What the planning department needs to do... And we separate... Those responsibilities out...

Into something else... Whether it's a... An employee... Or a different department...

Because I think... We've all been talking about that... About the... You know...

Getting rid of the slashes... But... We're at the time now... Where it can't just be a discussion anymore...

We need to start doing it... Yeah... To free up time in these departments... To do what the departments should be doing...

So I think... If you don't feel comfortable answering that... No... Right now...

Then... I want you to think about that... And get back to us... Because...

And I'll say that to all the departments... We have to get to the point where we say... You can't be divided... In your time...

Because... Then we become... Sufficient... In...

Doing our job... We're mediocre in our job... Because I have too many jobs... Right...

And we need to be excellent... In the jobs that we have been given... And if that requires us... Splitting the slashes away...

And creating... Another department... Or another person... We need to know that now...

Because I think... And we just saw... 71,000 people... We can't...

Keep acting like... We're not where we are... We just... And...

As a council... We need to... I mean... I know Kimberly's over there going...

Rich... What are you saying? We're dipping into that fund... But the reality is...

If that's what it takes... That's what it takes... I'll... I'll be honest...

You know I came to talk to this... We're getting spread too thin... And... That's what I'm worried about...

Yeah... We need... I... I've always felt...

This is my own personal opinion... I... I think... I would rather give you quality...

Than quantity... And I... That's what I want to give you... I'd rather focus on...

Three or four big things... Get that done for you... And then go to the next three... You don't have anything big right now...

On your plate, right? No... I could... But I...

I want to give you quality... In those three or four things... And then come back... And hit it...

Once I get those done... And bring you the next three... Just keep... Churning out...

Quality work for you... Rather than giving... Maybe that's... Maybe that's something...

Maybe that's... Maybe that's something... We could ask... I just feel like...

We could really benefit... From an administrative review... And... And then...

Perhaps some recommendations... To council... As to how we restructure... Change some of these things...

But one of the things... That I've noticed... Is... That we do have people...

Wearing tons of hats... It's because they're capable... And willing... And we're overloaded...

In every department... Right? I think that's pretty clear... And I think we would...

Benefit greatly... From... Focusing... Each department...

Inward... To their area of expertise... Those things... That we're just...

Plug and hold with... Are people... From different departments... Come back...

And let us know... What those are... And let's make a suggestion... To how to put someone...

In charge of that... It doesn't take you away... From your primary duties... And responsibilities...

Because I just see... A lot of that... I think it's been... Of necessity...

Nothing physical... It's been absolutely... Of necessity... And I'm just wondering...

If we're kind of... At the point... Where we've got to... Really target...

And focus... And say... Planning and planning... And that's what they...

Got to deal with... Right? And we need... A GIS department...

The GIS does all of this... Update... Takes care of this... So it doesn't take...

In the development community... I mean... In every department... You could fill in the blank...

Right? Because each of you are thinking... Right now... Oh yeah...

Let me focus on... What my area of expertise is... Or should be... All this data entry...

That you guys have been doing... I understand... You need to be involved in that... If you really want to be...

The IT guys behind it... So... That's at least... What's been banging around...

In my head... And I've had these conversations... And I think you find... A lot of broad support...

To that... But... We don't know... What the problems are...

We don't want to point to them... And say... Here's what you've got to fix... We just want to be supportive...

Of getting you... Whatever tools... To get there... Going beyond that too...

It also creates... A quality of life... For the employees... Or senior staff...

And if you're overworked... You're not staying here... Well... That's what I was talking about...

For years... And this was before you came on... But we had an open position... For...

That we just couldn't fill... All our positions... Are now filled... Right?

And is there any... And I don't want to... Use a crystal ball... But we're not a threat...

Of anyone necessarily... Believing... Because of circumstance... Or pay...

Or whatever... You know... I mean... We're always a friend of that...

Yeah... It's government... Right? But...

But that's why... When I say... The health department... Are you fully staffed...

And do we need to... Evaluate that? That's a conversation... For January...

But I want to... Be prepared... Right... We do have one employee...

That I'm worried about... Losing... And when you... Address it...

Sooner than later... And I expect that... To happen... And the mayor...

We've been talking... So... Just to piggyback... Half of what they're saying...

I want to make sure too... That we're budgeting enough... For like... Employing morale...

Type stuff... Because like... It's one thing to have... Our things that we do...

Is like... Citywide... Staff... Kind of things...

I think it would be good... To have some team building... Funds... Within your department...

Or two departments together... That work together a lot... Because there's something... To be said about that...

Culture... And making sure people... Are taken care of... So...

I'm going to offer... A counterpoint to that... If I might... Sure...

As an employee... If you have to choose... Between having an awesome party... Or getting the raise...

You've been waiting for... I'm going to tell you... That the raise... The money is going to be...

The more important to people... I think... That has to be... Our first evaluation...

Of... How do we make... The quality of life... Better in our departments...

By getting people paid... Hundred... And ten percent... I agree with that...

I just want to... If there's... I wasn't being critical... Of saying...

Priorities... Yeah... I totally agree with that... I want to make sure...

We do both... To be honest with you... I want to make sure that... Because that...

We know that you guys... Move heaven and earth... Every day... So we...

We want to... Have budgeted... We just haven't... Come up on it yet...

Is the top golf membership... Where... Departments would be able... To go and...

Golf once... Like once a year... Something with their... Department...

Hopefully... We just haven't... Our number hasn't... Come up yet...

To be able to do that... When you do that... You should talk to... Rachel...

Because she's really good... At wheeling and dealing... Those things... And...

She will get it... For like... Less than half... Of what it actually costs...

That... There's been a ton of research... Done on this topic... Of what...

Motivates employees... And what keeps them happy... At their jobs... And everything...

And... I'm not... Don't read into this too much... Okay...

So I'm not saying... We shouldn't pay our employees... Because I think... Pay is extremely important...

And I think... If they're underpaid... And they feel underpaid... Then that becomes...

A top priority... Right... If they're being paid... Adequately...

Or... Appropriately... Then... All the research shows...

That the pay is... Number five... On the list... The top ones...

Are quality of work... Environment... Their boss... Usually their boss...

Is one of the top ones... They did to work for... Not parties... Specifically...

But that... That environment... Their co-workers... And their culture...

Yeah... All those things... Generally... As long as they're being paid...

And they feel like... A lot of times... That conversation... Is going to come...

With workload... You know... For overworking... This is not my job...

I'm not being paid... To do these things... Yet I'm... You know...

Basically... I see my family... For a couple hours... Every night...

Go to bed... Get up... And repeat... Rinse her feet...

And also... And some of the other things... Like the activities... The tough golf...

And everything... Those... Those help contribute... To that quality of life...

Except that... If you're overworked... And then... Do I really have to go to this...

Because I have to catch up on this... And... Yep... Same with conferences...

And trainings... Which I think are... Hugely important... These trainings...

But... Everyone comes back... Feeling like... I'm now...

I'm way behind... I think that's where it goes back... To what the origination... Of this conversation was...

If we could remove... The slashes... And get people to... The purpose of...

I mean... If you ask them... What job were you hired for... Are they being paid...

And are they being the job... They were hired for... Or are they... This and this and this and this...

And to your point... Steve... Every other thing that you offer... That's supposed to be an incentive...

Is like... I don't want to go do... Any more things... With my job...

What I want to do... Is I want to go home... To my family... And I want to go do that...

With my family... Kind of a thing... And... We're at that point...

As a city... Where we want to start... Having people feel... Like...

This is a place... I want to stay... And I don't want to leave here... Because...

Whatever the reasons are... I'm well compensated here... I'm well... I'm valued here...

My job is... Specific... I know what my boundaries are... I know what the expectations of me are...

And I'm not over with... And that I'm hurt... When I... You know...

I feel like... The proportion of work is slanted... I'm married... And watch my...

Co-workers go to lunch... And spend... You know... Two hours at lunch...

And I'm over there dying... And that's the kind of thing... Where we create... A better work environment...

And the quality of... Life at work... Like... I think that I'm hearing...

From the council members... We want to make sure... That Eagle Mountain... Is a place people...

Want to come work at... We don't want them... Looking for other cities... To work at...

That has less of a workload... The same pay... Well... I didn't mean to...

Digress on that... Necessarily... Just the... But if there's a pay issue...

That needs to be addressed... If it's urgent... Then it needs to be addressed... Urgently...

If it's not... Then... And I'm going to say... If you have that...

You know... Tom... And Steve... Brandon is recommending...

That we need to pay... This person pay... Because I know... It's not going to be unreasonable...

Let's get it done... We don't want to... It's going to be harder... To find a new guy...

Yes... That possibly sucks... I know that... That same...

That same discussion... Could be had... With... Every department...

He's here... Don't make the list... It's harder to find a new guy... Than it is to keep the guy...

We've got... And we're going to end up... Paying it anyway... So...

What I'm hearing is... If we come back... With some budget amendments... That add to our personnel...

Approved dollars... And... Because a lot of those... Except the library...

We haven't... I know... But I know... I think it's...

The lowest paid staff... Is my part time... But they don't leave... Unless they're moving out of the state...

Or they've gone on a mission... That's when they leave... So... And they don't all qualify...

For the... The salary survey... Because they're part time... So that's where it gets hard...

So we've got... Adults making less than our teenagers are... That's a conversation... That absolutely needs to be had...

With the decision makers... On the website... For sure... I appreciate your support...

In that discussion... And we'll... Continue to... We want you to flourish...

I guess that's what it comes down to... Jared says... You know... Sorry we had this discussion...

I'm not... I think this is a discussion... That needs to not be a discussion anymore... It needs to be an action...

We want to see our valued people... Stay here... Well you can see what we did at the top... You can see what we did at the top...

Actions... Actions are being taken... On a regular basis... For this very topic...

Yeah... But... All ships rise... We do have a budget...

And so... Every time we come back... With budget amendments... We're going to ask for personnel costs...

Because... We can't just... We can't just keep giving... You know...

Increases... With a budget... That doesn't allow for that... So here's one of the things...

That I didn't want... Because I've heard this... Every council member... I've just heard this...

Kind of... Today... A little bit... As I've had conversations...

With individuals... But what I've heard... Is that there's at least... A willingness to tap into...

That 35% reserve... What I would like to hear... From admin... And Kimberly...

Specifically... And I'm not expecting... An answer right this moment... But I'd like you to study it...

And look at it... And come back... With a recommendation... Based on the...

On the employee needs... That we have... On the FTEs... That we need to be looking at...

What's... What's the floor for that? Do we need to consider... Moving that floor...

From 35%... To 30%... To 25%? I don't know...

What that answer is... But I would be... Very interested to hear... Where that floor...

Out of me... In your opinion... And what does that... Get us...

In this realm... And then... The next question is... Let's look at some projections...

As to how do we... Refill that bucket... Going forward... How do we...

Take a look at... Perhaps dropping the floor... For a period of time... With a plan in place...

To bring it back up... To that 30%... That's what I was wondering... About the Walmart revenue...

I mean... I think that would be... Super helpful... Because...

We're obviously bursting... At the seams... With FTEs... Needs...

Right? In staffing needs... What... What should we be looking at?

Because I think... I think it's... Kind of ostrich syndrome... For us...

To just bury our head in the sand... And say... We're going to maintain... A 35% floor...

Dollars are in today's dollars... They've been paid by the citizens... To meet... Their needs...

And if we're wrestling... To do that... Because we don't have enough employees... On staff to do that...

Then how do we... How do we get there? Maybe we need to adjust that... Slightly down...

Leave a floor... That's still comfortable... Doesn't put us at risk... But it allows us then...

To work towards... Refilling that... And there might be... Some other considerations...

That have to be looked at... To refill that... And I'm going to tell you too... On Brett's point...

I mentioned... Income sources... One thing... What I don't want to see...

Is what the county did... Is not raise taxes... For 30 years... And then all of a sudden...

You're way behind... Yeah... If our income sources... Aren't where they need to be...

And then we're not going to recoup... That through sales tax... We need to be honest... About looking at the sales tax...

And I hate to be the guy... To say that... But... Or sorry...

Not sales tax... Regular... Property tax... Increase...

Which I think... Could be minimal... I think... We're...

Not being honest... If we're not looking at that... Well... And...

We shouldn't have to fund... What we do... On the backs of our employees... Like...

Each... What is it... 37 cents a day... For household...

It really... It is... Yes... I made a graphic for it...

So... When people... Think about plowing... I put that out there...

Yeah... And what's wrong... With 45 cents a day... I mean...

What's another 7 cents... Or something... Let's be realistic about it... So we can meet our needs...

And maybe keep the 35%... That Brett's talking about... In the meantime... We've got to have a plan...

Yeah... To how to get back up there... And it might increase taxes... Well...

I think what I just hear everyone saying... Is... We'd like for that... Number...

That part... To be a part of our conversation... Going into budget season... So that we're armed with the information...

We need to make the choices we have to... So that's why I ask about this now... Because I think... We're...

We're not being honest... And we're not saying... How many people... We can't afford to hire...

What we're talking about... But we want to... And so we need to talk about it... I think we need to go further than that too...

I might be standing on my own... In this statement... He wrote it... I'll stand on my own...

I think that every department... Know who their key employees are... That we're in danger of losing... And they need to be...

People who have... Skill sets... Time that they've put in... That would be devastating...

For us to lose... Some of them in this room... By the way... Exactly...

Almost everyone... Yeah... That is one of the things... I'm putting back on each of you...

As department heads... To make that known... To Steve... And to the mayor...

And let's get them taken care of... That doesn't mean that... Everybody in the department... Needs to have this massive raise...

But we need to protect... The people who are key individuals... In our city... That help us to be great...

To continue to be great... And then we also need to address... What our baseline is... And I think that comes back...

To you Angela... Help us to do better... In what our baseline is... Help us to do better...

When we're hiring... So that we're not having... These positions sit open... For three...

Four... Five... Six months... And we can't help...

Because... We're not willing to pay... What the market rate is... To get that individual...

That... I'll just leave that as my... Final comment on that... Brandon...

How are you doing? To... Are you... Sorry...

Wait... You're still mean? Let's... So...

Natalie and Terrence... Have an activity... That would be nice... To put work into it...

So... It's gonna take too long... It's gonna be fast... You want me to...

It's gonna be fast... You want me to... I don't care if it's fast... I just want it to be fun...

We can take a rest... The afternoon... This is more fun... We're out of four years...

Okay... If it's fun... I can do one... I just wanna know who's who on that wall...

Yeah... Well... We weren't planning on sharing... Oh...

We'll share that... No share after they get the raises... This is... Are you recommending this?

What number are you? No... We can't make this... This isn't the most meaning...

I'm just gonna join... So I can put that up there... Okay... Cool...

Oh yeah... Did you get it okay? Hi... I did too...

You didn't know what... I thought... Well... Whatever...

I did too... You didn't know what... Damn it... I thought...

Well... Whatever... It looks like... That's obviously...

Two of... Seven... Right... Or...

You were good... You said you were a big... Well... It was a big picture...

She was like... No... That's not... I know...

It was obvious... You were good too... I think... I don't know if I got it...

Yeah... I think... Maybe... Yeah...

I was like... That's... Like... This...

Is it not... Close... Or... So...

I'm in a meeting... And I get it... It's not... But you've got...

So... You know... I was like... Trying to...

I was like... My eyesight... Like... I thought...

Like... Just... Make up... And I'm like...

I should tell you how it looked like it. I couldn't see. I'm like, oh, I can see. I'm like, somebody should tell her.

So I text her and she's like, I'm so sorry. I just couldn't see. We're going to go through the answers here. Okay.

Keep track of what you got. Number one, Angela. That was up. I'm like the darkest one in the room.

I wasn't going to think about it. That looks like it. That's Melissa. Yep, it's Melissa.

Any guesses? Kimberly. Kimberly. Kimberly.

Yes. I found Michael Jordan in the tongue. Okay. Evan.

Evan. Which one is Evan? Bottom right. Bottom right.

The blue? No. Green. Green.

Blue shirt. Yes. Which one is number three? Kimberly.

Next one is number five, I believe. Any guesses? Is this Brandon? No, this is Terrence.

Terrence. Terrence. Terrence. I said Terrence.

Okay. It's the socks. This one. This one.

Which one is the cowboy hat? Is it the cowboy hat or the, which one? Of course. Nope.

You are all wrong. Who is it? It's Tyler. I don't think anyone got that.

That was crazy. I don't think anyone got that. Did anyone get that? No.

No. This is me. No. It's me since you're pretty old.

Hey, we should have it. Brandon. Brandon. That's Brandon.

This one's Brandon. Brandon. Yep. Okay.

This one. That's Jared. It's Jared. Yeah.

I gave it away 'cause I said it. Yeah. Well, he makes that face all the time. Yeah.

She's always waiting on a football team. That's Vince. That's Gabby. Is that Vince?

It's Vince. Yeah. Yes. Is that Donna?

This one? Is that Donna? Natalie. Natalie?

It's me. She's like, "Is it Donna?" What kind of looks like your daughter? That's Michelle. Michelle.

Yeah, but she's not. Michelle? Wow. That's me.

So I don't know. Yeah. I look at that one and that's exactly her. I'm on this one.

Not that red. No, I'm not. That kid looks like he could sell you a house. I put...

No, it was me. I had fiery red hair. I put that in Michelle. The mayor?

Yeah, not the mayor. That's the cutest one too. That clip? It's Fred!

Oh, yeah. Now I see it. Yeah. I would have not...

Just switch on your little goatee. Yeah. Okay, this one. Clip.

Clip? I think that was Tom. No. Michelle's right.

Clip. Woo-hoo! Okay. And then our last one.

Steve. Steve? Yeah. It's Steve.

I love Steve, baby. Yeah. I love Steve, baby. I love Steve.

You look really like poor Lord. Angela, I'm going to ask you. I got nine. Is this Tom or Tyler?

Is this mayor or Tyler? And he goes, I'm not going to say. And I was like, I don't know. I don't know.

It's Steve. Okay, so who got five right? No. Okay.

Six. Seven. Eight. Nine.

Nine? Ooh. All right. It's the library.

She's got this. My library. Did you get more than nine? And why was mine?

Oh, yeah. Tyler? Did you get more than nine? No, I got nine.

You got nine? Nice. Wow. That's great.

All right. And now, Terri, is going to lead us through that. Well, we will need your phones for this one. Yes.

No. Can you play some taboo? Oh, yay. Thank you.

I thought you were confiscating that. She's like, no. Not a chance. Taboo?

Did you find the connection? I don't know. Did you find the connection? I don't know.

Do we have to put, like, a username and all that? No. Ah! Do we need to download the computer?

No, no. You don't have to download the computer. It's going to give us, like, a QR code in a second. Okay.

This is what the kids do at school these days, you guys. It's their favorite. And all of it. I'm just going to hide this one.

So, you can go to www.cahutla.it or search Cahutla and you just need to type in the number. I don't know. I don't know if I can see it. There's two screens on the phone too.

That's right in the front of the whole screen. I don't think you can see that. We can just scooch it over if we can do it. Oh.

And then there's one behind you too. There's one behind you too. Can anybody not be aware of this? Well, parents ought to say we can open the TV card if it's a little card.

There's one behind you too. I did. Oh, is this the speaker channel? Is this the speaker?

No. No, I'm sorry. I wasn't quite talking about the survey though. There's one behind you too.

Or, hey! We'll look at the camera. It's a pirate patch. We got that one.

Did you see that? I got it. Yeah! I got it.

Alright, we got 11 players. So, it's going to be great. Oh, I'm there. I got it.

Oh, it's just the end. We'll be free, Angela. I need that way of course. A spatula join will score.

No pressure. There we go. I love it. I just close people.

They do that. You just want to cut it up. I love it. You can change it.

I love it. You can change it. It's good. Yeah.

AT. That's awesome. Plus Angela. I'm just kidding.

I know. Don't be funny. There's a file. There's a file in a chair.

Oh, yeah. You know. I can grab all the answers. I just want to enter the room.

Really? Yeah. That's so weird. I know.

It was a check line. I'm keeping her dude. I like that. I'm very glad they're gone.

I'll keep hitting her dude. I like that. I'm lost a lot. I never.

We lost a lot. And I'm just going to be like, oh, not right. We lost two. We're just a mess of them.

Oh, okay. Not really. Yeah, we're trying to dress our bow names. Respectful.

I'm a doctor. Hey, I'm a what? You put me to our what? For eagle comes.

Do you guys want to say who you're going or whoever you're going to come out? Alright, you guys ready? There's some high pressure on this one so you just need to be in the first place. Alright, ready, get set, go!

One sample question for you guys. Guess who? How excited everyone is to let the fun begin. Let's see.

You got 20 seconds to answer. You can't see it on the back. If you have Zoom on your computer you can get it. Crap, time's up.

Dang it. I put this as a sample question so you just need to pick which color and that will be your answer. And I'm sorry for the 20 seconds. You're telling me there's actually two flags for this one?

They were alright. They're alright. I've got a bonus one. Are we ready for the second one?

That's right. Here's the second question. Don't worry, I'm winning. I'll lose here in a minute.

Alright, so you have to be quick. And then here's the second question. This is a useless sound. Who can do blocking the game?

Tyler? Oh, I know. Chef? Thanks for having me.

Tyler, I got your back. I jumped right on the other side. The correct answer is athletic. Woo!

Now let's see the scoreboard. Yeah. And... We got...

HALA! We need to go to the scoreboard, that's right. Are you ready for the next one? Yep.

Alright. Figure. Now that we know what we're doing. Oh, I can guess who is from.

Where? Oh, I can guess who is from. Where? Oh, I can guess who is from.

I can guess who is from. It's definitely down. I can guess who is from. All right.

Good job to go so soon. All right. Let's see the scoreboard. All right.

Let's see the scoreboard. We got Evan being the scoreboard. Woo. All right.

I'm coming for you, Evan. All right. Next question. Guess who described himself as a bandit from Bluey.

That's like how he better. This is Brandon. French. Flip.

Come back. I'm just going to watch Barry. We have a little more fun. Oh, I can guess.

You can do that. Yeah, yes. You can do that. Oh, okay.

I guessed that. I figured he was doing it. Let's see this scoreboard. It's just a little bit.

I can do that. Yeah, yes. You can do that. Oh, okay.

I guessed that. I figured he was doing it. You can do that. Let's see this scoreboard.

I'm calling him. Woo! Everybody's speaking. All right.

Next question. I guess I didn't do the answer when I was him. I know. Yes.

You asked me to help speed. I know. The HR file. I know.

The HR file. I know. The HR file. I know.

The HR file. I know. The HR file. I know.

The HR file. Now I'm coming. Don't be hard. Now I'm coming.

I said, "Live, and big, you should kill my puppies." Where is the new? The left? Put your down. Happy.

That was super great. Never make an awesome. We're all right. We might not be here, but she should be there.

Oh, got it. In front of the -- She's here. We're not at last. We're down.

All right. Oh. I beat you. She's doing all of them.

I'm going through now. So, next one. Guess who talked to or met. At least we knew the vice president.

I wish you could come back with me. I don't know. Which ones? So, Trump, Clinton, and Obama.

Cool. In the same place. He interviewed him. Yeah.

Like, that's -- We have to take that out. We have to change it. End of scoreboard. Michelle Stilindy.

I think that even dead last is good. Awesome. Next question. We have to change it.

Thanks. Thank you. Natalie, thank you. I do love making me.

That was a trick question. It was tricky. I picked Melissa. I picked Melissa up on the board.

I know. I do love making me. That's a trick question. It was true.

She put it like twice on there. I picked Melissa up on the board. I believe from the conversations I've gathered, salt storage, snow cloud storage, miscellaneous supply storage, not likely other equipment though. Probably a bathroom, right?

Yes. That would be good. And then a cemetery building, which would have like storage and maybe an office service next bin, maybe not, depending on what you want to do with it. So these are the facilities we'll be talking about today.

And here's the, based on that master facilities plan, they identified some of the facilities that might require land. And then we included the number of acres that are needed based on the needs assessment for each of those departments and how big they should be. And then based on that master facilities plan, they gave us some rough estimate of the potential fund, like how much it will cost us to do these things. Yeah.

And then if you see satellite, public works site, and then the cemetery building, it says TBD acres, A because it just depends on how good you want to make it. And then it's also likely that, like for the cemetery, of course, we already own that land. So land acquisition, it's just figuring out, you know, configuring the plot, how we want that to work. I'm going to ask an obvious question.

Yes. Waste water treatment facility. Tell us what that's included. Is that just the processing plan?

That would be the expansion, the plan expansion, from basically the head works all the way through to the end product, the process. But that's way higher than the 40 million we talked about before. So actually those acres should be swapped. My bad.

I'm sorry. It's okay. But yeah, that's the plan expansion as a whole. The other is just the building office space.

That's good to know. That's the institution space. That's right. And then we asked, do these facilities require us to purchase land?

City hall, like we guessed. Library, also guessed. Recreation center, if it goes where it's been talked about. Potentially it could go ahead of Corey Gray Park.

Then no, we reveal that land. Public safety building. Yes, we'd likely have to acquire land. The wastewater treatment facility.

This one is a maybe because, you know, if we build out to the 10, sorry, the 10 million gallon capacity, then we have the land that we need for that. But if we decide that we want to expand further than that, then we will need to purchase more land. The wastewater office building. We wouldn't need to purchase land.

The public works building expansion. Yes, probably. It's been recommended in the, in the report that we purchased or trade for, the little Rocky Mountain Power area. That would just help us use our land far more efficiently.

Instead of having that little splitter cut out of it. Um, a satellite public works site. That one is a maybe because we do own land, but you know, around the city, but if we don't have a place that would be able to hold what you guys want to build there, then we might have to trade for it or purchase land. What was the size of that one that we needed again?

For the satellite? TBD. Depends on what you all want to like put there. And we, we have some options we'll talk about later.

Yeah. If I may ask. Yeah. That will depend on if you want it to be just a storage, uh, facility for the equipments and stuff, or do we want it to be like a satellite office?

That means putting some people there and be there. But yeah, but that would be a conversation that will. Yeah. From what I'm understanding, Public Works' recommendation is to not have it be an extra office.

That's what I'd like. The intent was to be able to, for ongoing work, for a place to be able to restock or store equipment and things, so we're not wasting so much travel time. So are you looking at it as a primary salt location or a secondary? Both.

Like it depends on which route. So you're not running back and forth, right? The reason I say both is it depends on which truck, which route, right? Uh, the goal would be obviously to be more over here because we're already on the far south end.

Uh, if we had something over here. So you want to have them in both places. That's what I'm asking. Yeah.

Basically. Yeah. Basically right now, the trucks that can hold the most, do the routes the furthest away, right? So they can be out the longest, but the goal is based off of what your route was, which where, where you would be retrieving from.

I think depending on the size of the footprint of that, like you would probably need some indoor storage and you might be able to house a couple of your trucks there. So you have a quicker response in that area to, to navigate from. Then there would be some additional equipment costs because you need the equipment to load as well. So, so we can get more into the details.

Um, of that, how that would be a little bit later, but that's kind of why that was. And then lastly, I didn't realize this was also covering things for you guys. Sorry. Um, no, we would not need to.

So for, we have some potential options, which a lot of you are familiar with some potential land acquisition opportunities that we have in your city. So just looking at the Corey Wright art area, um, just across, we can place some facility facilities over there. Um, also that L shape area. And if you cannot get the frontage part of it, um, even, yeah, even that area, that back, back area, we can still, we can still put some, um, city facilities there potentially.

And then that 30 acres, um, it's just a good opportunity to expand our, our, um, and we might not need like all of it, but we're just, you know, these are options that are available to us. The six acres, um, across the street there would hold about two, city facilities. So we're kind of splitting difference. Of course, there's more land to obtain there.

We need it, but. Isn't that area supposed to be quite a bit bigger than that? The discussion is bigger. I think she was just showing for our city facilities.

Yes. It's going to be much bigger and cool downtown, but we're talking about downtown. I'm not talking about city hall area. Wasn't it supposed to be closer to 20?

I thought it was 11. It's 21 for the, for the downtown. It's what we identified for purchase. And then not all of that would be used for city facilities, but some maybe.

So that was both combined. Yeah. And yeah, and there's more, we, you know, we could take up more land. off the numbers.

From that report. That. That would be good. Yep.

Um, and then here we have, sorry. I accidentally did that twice. And then here we have our public work site. Um, I'm so sorry.

I forgot to add in. You can obtain a little bit of land right behind our, I don't know, where most of our equipment is being stored. We can obtain a little bit of that. This 2.2 acres is the Rocky mountain power, uh, parcel.

And then these 40 acres are the 40 acres that we actually have first right of refusal on. If I can correct me if I'm saying things wrong. Um, but we have some money a little bit. Put into that, but we do have the option to back out.

But yeah. So that's what we're going to do there. Do we have to buy it? We need to buy it.

We're going to buy it. We've decided to go further. We need to actually try to look at some of that property just south in the wastewater, which is labeled by a few years ago. Okay.

So that's. more of this you know how much how many acres it depends on what size plan you want to run so let's just give us a raise then from this to this we need this much before if we go back how much is that so we have 90 acres plus 120 in our ids probably another 20 30 acres for another 5 mgd we are right so we'll have more information on that later but yeah but before we move on just to make sure that the first strategy that we were kind of recommending is to make sure that we buy this land as early as we can and once we have the land we can decide like next is the satellite campus which is our response suggested so we have some potential lands that this thing owns that we potentially can do with a facility storage as a temporary solution the first one is the kiowa valley it's kaiwa kaiwa kaiwa valley it's 1.5 acres by just orders crossing and then um golden eagle but in this facility or in this location there's actually a concrete pad and it's already fenced out um but if we want to turn it into a satellite or a storage facility for the public words we might need to expand it a little bit we might cut out um some for the parts but it's doable that as a solution a temporary solution we want to pursue that yeah and that's that's where we're well well forest so that's not in use so we do have some space there that can utilize um this is another option we also own this land off of silver lake or sorry adjacent silver lake off of pony express um yeah that's another option for us as well sorry to interrupt i just have kind of a tangent question it's probably not even a good tangent but rather mac probably uh can that well four right that's the one that's we're not using so well for is gone it has a sanitary cell it's it's lousy right we are using as storage store yes or water water is there any potential to use it as secondary yes no no it biofouled and it has been since the sanitary sales basically what you work concrete it's like you came into the holes it's um okay it was we were using that mass secondary yeah but it did foul us it wasn't anything well wow all right i knew it was bad that's why we had enough purple pipe up the quarters that tied in the ranches and we were running them on the park that's not an option okay um and then here we're getting into a little bit of like how do we prioritize all of these facilities that we the city need we asked a few questions it kind of goes in order like we'll do the first question so we asked does this facility impact the city's immediate ability to deliver basic services so like a sewer plant you know is pretty immediate very basic but if we answered no to that then the next question is does this facility impact the city's long-term ability to deliver services maybe we're doing it okay now but it's not going to last us long term uh lower priority so we said no to medium then we asked does this facility enhance the city's ability to deliver services efficiently does it just make things faster and better higher level of service um and then there's a another category that we just said maybe it doesn't fit in any of these categories so kind of other and so um we i don't know if all the staff agrees with these if this is just some uh but here are some potential recommendations so for the high recognition so you have that master facilities plan done by galloway so we use that as a guide too but we also have some conversation with some of the department heads and then we kind of talk about what are what are our needs right now so on a high priority on a staff recommendation is the wastewater plant expansion definitely um which already in those works um the next one is it's an ore so that what wastewater plant expansion we have an opportunity to just create the build the facility as well with that same project the office office space um or do we we need to expand the public works um office space so that we will be able to have a space for our our employees for public works sorry just as a clarification right building the water wastewater office space office building with the planet and if we don't do that building we need to expand so we need some solution for space in public works if if we build the wastewater office building that would probably give them enough room to tie them over and then we could put the public works building expansion in a you know secondary priority but they need space one way or another so and i get you know portables or whatever that's right um the next one is office space for the non-public works department all i mean by that pretty much is the city hall departments that is currently housed there and also the community development because since we're releasing that you know we have this opportunity i mean we there's a lot of stopping means so we need to place these people on different spaces but at the same time um we need a space for the non the non-public works department i have a question about this are we talking about immediate solutions today or are we talking about an actual building um mostly a building but the the thing is is we also are going to talk a little bit about if you don't prioritize uh like the public works office space you say we don't want to do a wastewater building or a public works building expansion we need to do something so whether that's renting more office space or getting portables or doing something we need something sooner than later so we'll get into that a little bit more with the activity but we've got in this for us i'm asking because there's no city hall sitting on here we know that needs to be built yeah so that would be office space or not right it's down there so that would be city hall or portables we need something that's kind of the genesis of my question city hall is going to take some time to build we know we need to do some of these things now so it's a dual thing where we'll do something now to accommodate those things while it's being built like is that taken into consideration of what we're talking about right now um a little bit yeah like i feel like no matter what happens we will find a way to shuffle people around and work building and expanding right but um there's tremendous inefficiency i mean there's a lot of inefficiency in that so we want to avoid that where we can right yeah so like the question is like do you put city hall in the high priority or do you put it lower because you want to be in portables for longer like we'll likely need temporary office space until something gets built but because of that situation does that put city hall in a higher priority because we don't want to be in like these rental spaces so that's like something to think about um we'll just quickly finish this and then we're going to jump into an activity where we need to hear your thoughts that's right um the next one on a medium on priority first is police um just some thoughts about it i mean everyone needs a lot of analysis on it and then we're doing an updated one as well but um either way we're providing as part of our contract with the sheriff's office that we need to provide the facilities for for them so this doesn't mean that we're going to create our own police force once we build the facility for them but this will help the city to be in a better position once we have the facility already available this puts the city in a better position if we decide to do to have our own police department um another one is the library you know that they provide so many services but we just don't have enough space for them so that's one um opportunity that you know we can take into consideration when comes to prayer and then that just the last one is it's the same thing if we build the plan if we build the office space then the next is the next priority will be the public works expansion but if you don't want the facility for wastewater and water you still need to do the public works expansion if you like face shield expanding other words yeah and then the next one is the low priority um you've seen it from you know from the survey that the general plan update you know a lot of people are talking about recreation center you can see it on facebook um so for this one we put it on a low priority we don't know where where you guys want to put that recreation center but just some ideas on this one is either way we still need to provide the facility for senior senator report um events so those kind of things so either way we don't do our recreation center we still need to find a space for our senior department's um events department and the recreation department as well and then the last one is just the satellite works um public works satellites yeah because that's one of those things that's like yes the roads are getting salted they would get salted faster if we have a secondary location but it's not going to hinder us from actually providing a service and then in the other category um it was all my reports we wanted to acknowledge it is the satellite park site they recommended us having like an office for recreation or something or for parts at quarry ride but the reason it's in the other category is that if we decide to put a recreation center in quarry ride park that could probably also serve as the satellite parks like office recreation storage so um that's kind of where we're coming from you wanted to hear about stuff so now we're going to go ahead and do this activity that so we want to brainstorm with you because now you've heard the staff recommendation in terms of what we need but we also have the staff members here and they can hardly answer any other questions so now we're going to play thank you so we have a lot of facilities here and then the ideas we want you to do it but i think we don't have a lot yeah so yellow is public works related pink is not public works related um the green that's our current city hall we just wanted to acknowledge that it's probably not going to be i don't know where you want it to sit in the long-term plan or even if you do but we just said green because it's existing and then the purple is the portable and least space if you want to make that part of your plan um but yeah so we just wanted to hear from you what would you prioritize like high medium and low and then we'll also consider oh shoot i didn't go over the want to go with the funding stuff we have should i go over that or not we could do that after the okay yeah let's do this and then we'll talk about the other okay so what what do you guys want to see bumped up bumped down we'll move things around for you and then you can see on the screen this effort maybe while everybody's just kind of thinking a little bit uh just a little more perspective on public safety um yeah public safety is it may not be a high priority however also anything we invest in it don't lose so you almost you almost can't go wrong even though yeah may not be high priority but uh i i think i suspect that several of these we may end up approaching in in pieces uh and that's certainly one that we could approach in pieces we don't have to doing it all at once uh so intending to make that a separate building by itself for part of city hall that's something that we could do that with this as well so if you want public safety combined with city hall yeah so you could do like public safety city hall library city hall we can combine things yeah sky's the limit is the first question what's the highest priority though let's yeah let's start high priority what do you want here and do you want yeah so then yeah here's the the wastewater what else do you want high priority what's coming in top so i want to ask the question about wastewater are we talking about full build out wastewater or we're talking about the first phase i think that's the next thing just to give us i think that's important for the conversation because it's not 140 million dollars for phase one and two sorry yeah that is that's the first phase yeah the things that we're currently jumping into that's the anticipated yeah so we're just talking next phase for that yeah okay let's hear your thoughts okay wait sorry well portables in least space it's not safe if we've already reached space and we want portables in order to not waste space well okay well it's just it's more supposed to represent like something temporary not yeah just in case you move something to medium or low we need to put that in high well let's start with what's our alternative yeah yeah high priority yeah high priority what do you want to see coming the cases we're already doing the wastewater treatment it can be combined in the same bond so you issue one bond and you get both done we already have time for a building that was done back in 2021 so we do have a building is it going to be big enough to house like i'd rather have extra space to grow into this will that's what that's what this is so initially when we started this process the intent was also to companies engineering and begin building with us so that gives growth more opportunity as these progress but i realized we're at 72 000 people and projected to be 172 so at 172 000 are we're still going to have enough people we'll have to add on to our wastewater i think for all of our facilities we want to make sure that we're planning to like have room to grow into so if they build the wastewater office is bigger than what we need now that can take spillover from the other public works building until that can be expanded we'll review that design yeah again and make sure it's still correct so so we talked about yeah maybe engineering moves over there for a temporary time five years whatever that is or less until city hall is built and then they move there or something like that okay what's the next biggest yeah what do you guys want high priority city hall city hall do you want a city hall solo do you want to combine with something i think it needs to be all three now safety is the existing city hall so i i'm not as worried about public safety i think there's a couple things that we should add to the city hall for sure they're not even not here honestly um i think we should i think we should incorporate a senior portion to that area where the seniors can actually meet look at you and i'm thinking for veterans as well i love that she's just like honest what do you think but i'm thinking if we could play this place for those veterans that have a place to meet seniors a place to meet and then i i think it should be combined the library i'm thinking the library is a combination and that's exactly i'm thinking you convert the current city hall from the public safety building that's what i'm that's what i was well the current city hall for the public safety needs ability to be able to do that for 20 years 30 years like what the only i think the only thing about like our current city hall is the land around it is is that a good i don't know would we want secure parking for our officers and things like that we might have to buy more land and then the price of the land there versus somewhere else the public safety building is what we already have yeah i'm not so it's lower expanding that oh yeah bigger i'm thinking about that being a bridge okay i get to wherever that's going to land but that's not a high priority in my life yeah because you can convert that pretty easily and i agree with them for this reason you look at the size of wehi's public safety building and there are 90 000 people that building's half the size we're going to be 170 it's not going to house our public safety forever right but for now it's sufficient for now yes because it's a low priority building i'd rather have public safety there than the plan suggested library and seniors at one point and i was like no because i think it'd be too complicated to convert the life that to a big library so yeah a lot of cities are actually building where are you talking library city hall yeah most cities spanish fork lehigh saratoga springs are all building a combo yeah because you get a little bit better of a bond rate if you put the library combined with it plus it goes well with the residents because that's something that they can go to right away because if you just say city hall itself we understand why i see those important but some people might not see it that way so right how do you fund this is going to matter because if you go to a geobond really hard to sell the city hall by itself so if you want to convert it and then later build a new one because they were pointing out it's not like we've been big enough on its own for our cold so i'm just saying people in eagle mountain are like cops and fire yes library so that's why like i think strategically if we put i'm getting i'm saying it's a hard sale for us sometimes to tell people that we want a library or a city fall because those seem like extra things cops and fire aren't so if we were to include the cost of just bringing that up to speed to where it needed to be i mean it's an existing building and it could survive here's the deal but if it's part of the bond i think we're going to do a lease revenue bond because we're we're going to start our building 40. okay so that's something that we can we were going to bring it out a little bit later but we could say like when the economy sucks though everybody's effort like because if we for wastewater i 100 think i'm just saying sell the idea yeah yeah when it comes to bonding of course we need to make sure that we kind of like understand that where what revenue are we going to pledge to it and we can make be more strategic on how we can do that so for our revenue bond the wastewater treatment plant the wastewater offices we can actually bond against our water sewer rates we don't have that because we don't own power where's the box with the power plant so what else do we building it so but i'm guessing if we're talking city hall we're like like we're talking about local building authority um do we want anything else in high priority or do we want to look at medium friday i can't see sorry but i think the uh the temporary the satellites even before any of those because we need that now what's everyone's thought the satellite public works facility and it's not just public work sorry because i think that's part of that over there i'm talking about we were earlier asked the question about office space just for general this so this just refers to okay that's the one i'm talking about okay i think that can be that has if that's a high priority that is too because it's the bridge to get us there yeah so let's put that at the bottom so that's like our bridge could you do a combo of the satellite space and this and like because the land has to be purchased we'd have to buy some storage facilities those could go at corey ride park or something somewhere we already have i mean well look we've got a need for office space right now the thing is is like i think that's pretty different than that this is for like offices this the satellite public work site would be something like on the north top of town ideally more northern to put our like snow plows and salt so do we want that high priority because the roads are getting salted now medium priority what do you say well how much are we spending on driving it from one side of town to the other there are certainly higher needs okay than having our salt stores right would you say medium or low what if we built it and then also put it it's low on low it's low it's low no i'm very it's just why we're doing this process i was just going to say it's yeah it's in a perfect world it's just having the land so land acquisition can be like a separate theme if we have a priority of what buildings we want that doesn't stop us from buying all the land up front or whatever we want to do so that's okay that yeah that might stop you but at least the plan won't stop you you know what i mean so yeah let's let's bring it up if i public works expansion that's right like what we mentioned earlier if we do the waste water or the water offices we still need to do the public works expansion but it's it's gonna and the reason i think that could go there is because why can't you expand some of the public works into the public safety building but can't you combine that for a period of time when you're using that as a bridge while all of this is being done as a priority that can work we're just saying they need space pretty soon and taking care of that now gives them time till that is needed from what i'm not back when we started the process it was five million so i'm anticipating double yep can i make one more comment about the satellite public works absolutely because i i i'm going to take it maybe a contrary position to what i've heard at least articulated in some degree i think we need to have that facility where it's wheelhouse and employees and i'll tell you why i think that's a much longer look at what's going to happen in the city i think when you have 175 000 residents in the city you're going to want that full facility on this end of 50 square miles so am i saying we should build it that way today absolutely not what i'm saying is when we purchase property we should contemplate that so we have enough that 20 years from now 15 years from now there's not a council going gosh why didn't we set aside another five or ten acres we need options we need the option yeah so then we're not tying our hands tell me understand why you need to have an office of those well why i see them because i don't see it as just a salt shed i see it as an actual base of operations for things that are happening on the north more like districts exactly the north end of our city that's what i'm seeing it as and i think if we think small we're going to be fixing it in 15 years i think if we think a little broader that we're going to create some opportunities for people that aren't sitting here today that they don't have we don't think that way another uh another option that they galloway talked about in the study is buying property for a new public works facility and then selling repurposing the one we have down there but we're changing it to water waste water or something but but the problem is ours is on the very south end of town and so it doesn't serve the north well let me tell you how this is how i think there's a reason i'm on a four and a half danger a lot with my of my budget let me tell you that and it's because i could see the development of what's happening and i looked at lehigh and i thought if i don't take an opportunity to secure some of that now there's no way i'll be able to do that in the future i think we're at that point here as a city that if we don't secure the land for some of these things for a full build-out scenario we're going to be kicking ourselves and paying millions upon you tens of dollars of extra dollars that our citizens are going to have to come in and right now it's going to cost us a few millions in the future it's going to cost us tens of hundreds of billions of dollars so like almost like if we had a box for um like land acquisition you put it like i would put it over there and i would say everything that we need land acquisition for we ought to be targeting that right now and make sure that when we flush the toilets don't work that's what i think that works too um do we have any opinions on the public safety recreation center like either of those either of them well because we have something that works right now right yeah so the question yeah yeah so the question is you need like i think we are uh we're vulnerable on the recreation though and let me explain what i mean by that so i'm gonna i'm gonna go totally marketing here this is my marketing brain yeah so from a pr standpoint perception of our of our residents what what they're gonna see this is this is my evaluation from that lens not this is not a practical or anything this is just uh public perception i think uh wastewater all of that is a neutral i don't think publicly both perception hurts us or helps us either one so i think i i see that as it doesn't tip the scale i think a city hall even if this is a city hall library i think that does tip the scale uh uh probably still pretty much about the resident perspective barely except for the cost i'm saying i'm just saying you say city hall to them you're saying well don't we already have one oh right right yes yes but they're going to say they're going to question like why you need to do city hall you have one you know um so they're going to say where are we getting out of this right what do they get out of this a new city hall they're probably gonna say i don't think i can get anything so um now 37 cents a day yeah but when we're talking now reparation center that can mean a lot of different things it could mean a full-blown rec center it could mean just a pool it could mean i mean there's all kinds of variations of it um from a public perception i think we need to give the public something i don't know what it is i got that i got the answer i don't know where those buildings right there that go that has our staff for the meantime by courtyard become the future rec area where they can do karate classes or whatever in the portables in the portables that's we've talked about that already yeah that's a possibility and and beyond that no offense to your train of thinking because i do appreciate that we don't get slaughtered on the facebook well that's what i'm saying that's where i get it but i'm going to tell you contrary doing what's right i don't care what they do yeah they got to know what's right you got to get them to vote for it let me give let me give you a carrot okay and they're right i agree with you i tend to agree with you and that's part of why we've had we've had these discussions with galway and others and some of the consultants that we met with one of the things that at least some council members i think are supportive of is this idea of introducing recreation into that facility whether it's a pond whether it's just some element of recreation so that there's a pond there's some ice skating there's part of the community downtown area that this provides those types of resources for our citizens it answers some of the questions or the concerns or the wants that they want without having to do an 80 million dollar rec center that we know is going to run into negative and look if if you want to put it forward as ballot measures let's do it i'm fine let's see what the simpsons think if they're willing to pay for it i'll sign the paperwork that's a great point i mean yeah if they're not and i mean saratoga springs just went through this when their residents resoundingly said not only no heck no right and so i i suspect that our residents are going to have a similar feeling when they look at the pocketbooks well the thing you have to remember too is the people who complain on facebook aren't necessarily the ones that vote and i think the motivated voters are typically the ones that are more fiscally conservative in our community at least there's lots of loud people asking for a rec center but it doesn't mean that they're going to show up and i'm going to say that was probably the case a while ago with the influx of people in the last six or seven years they're younger they want there to be ability to recreate and you're hearing that not just on eagle mountain citizens it's being repeated on other pages in other cities it's being repeated in their hoa pages it's not something that just exists in this echo chamber that is eagle mountain citizens page i i think it's happening more often now so there is an expectation of what are we getting for our tax dollars here to the mayor's point but i i'm on that same page that red is i think we can address some of these things in other ways that are less expensive and we're not taking net losses at all the time well on top of that two things number one any potential school board candidate i think that the most flush area where we're going down the cashier direct center is in the school district yeah and so like a lot now granted the city can do a fish pond and the stuff christ talking about the school district can do a swimming pool for the swim team which they need anyway uh i would like to push that that way if we get one more data center we will have knocking on 50 million dollars a year surplus in the district but if we don't have power for them it's not going to matter i don't know but if we do if we can get the data center figured out if we're the school district could build direct centers so that's where i would try to encourage that number two i think the other thing for the direct idea like solid county is rap tax you saw that overwhelming support it through the but doesn't that work better when we actually have like a ton of purchases made in our city do we have enough commercial entities right now to make rap tax pay some pay well um i would just say so i hear what you're saying about people moving in but i would be really curious to pull the voter records and look and see how many people have registered to vote here and actually voted in this place we can pull that data that's available we can know exactly where they're voting from right the precincts yeah and that's the thing that's all available to us we could get that and then we could have an idea well i can tell you last year there was a much larger group of voting people uh that were in the southern part of city center parkway fields area overland that it has flipped in some of those areas and they're the people who are speaking up and saying where is it and honestly a lot of people are saying i don't really care if it costs us more taxes i don't care if it runs into the negative and has to be subsidized with taxes we want this here because what else are our kids going to do and i'm not saying that i'm a proponent for all that i'm just saying that's what he says that's why you put it up as a ballot manager yeah that's why you give the citizens the opportunity to weigh in and we're not having to make that they can hash it out we're not saying no forgive it you can't afford it well we have to put it on i guess if we don't they can't ever leave so that's what i'm saying is we need to be willing to consider that i certainly would but i think what i'm hearing too is that look we want to do a wreck something provide some recreational opportunities opportunities without saying rec center i think rec opportunities is different than rec center i think you can do that so so separate that opportunities from rec center and you can get a different conversation well like milk creek has an outdoor climbing wall that's a great idea but that's also letting voters put their neighbors in a position that their neighbors who are in fixed incomes having to pay for their fun and recreation and i i don't know if i'm okay with just saying yeah these retired veterans these senior citizens if you talk to the senior citizens this year the biggest concern with the district was taxes they're scared because they can't buy their groceries and their medicine right now so that's exactly my point though is then you give the citizens who are going to be it's not not real in my opinion it's no different than what happened with the school district you give those citizens that are going to be directly impacted by those who are willing to engage in the process the ability to either pass it in 51 or say there's no way on god's green earth that i'm going to pay the sector money in tax that that's basically what it is i'll tell you where my vote would be i'm not going to support it personally on that side i don't think that should preclude us from allowing those who feel really strongly about it to have some input and some say into whether or not our community should support it but to that point too i mean the way that things work is by majority unfortunately and we have to give that opportunity for the citizens that they if they feel strongly about it they show up in numbers right yeah and if they feel strongly about it they show up in numbers four or again there's an opportunity for them to decide or we just make the decision for them and the impact is the same yeah they still get taxed right either way well they only get taxed if it actually happens if they take some if we don't do it then that extra tax doesn't happen whether they vote on it or not right if they do this wording in the end of the recreation opportunities what do they actually want is that every time i see it they want to move so and i hope for that recreational opportunities are a little bit different too because you're not paying a monthly fee for say to use them a pond or something like that is open to everyone that's a different conversation than something you have to pay 900 a month for that's the only thing that's the only thing i would consider putting on putting out a ballot that you're saying for instance it's like a pond it's not not that you just do part of city hall recreational opportunities part of city hall you'll find me supportive of that rec center i'm supportive of putting that on the ballot as a citizen really want a chance to vote yeah i'm not going to support it personally with my vote who's going to say it that way because i don't see the value in it for me and my household that's it right everybody else has a chance to vote well i think well some of the things we've been talking about so i'm going to pause and let you say what you're going to say um i think um we have removed the rec center from our survey multiple times and i think that if you want to get real data let's it was on this time it wasn't on the time before because i think i didn't want it so let's ask the question again and say ask the real question would you be willing to pay for it i think that's the important part but the thing is it's not just whether or not we're willing to pay for it it's whether or not we're willing to force our neighbors to pay for it that's the real question and to me that's part of what good governance is is asking do we feel okay with forcing people to pay for something that isn't necessarily a basic function of government can i say the same thing in a different manner sure are we okay with those that can't afford of forcing the others who can to not be able to have it yeah it's the same thing yeah but there's a difference in what government you're the king of what's the proper role of government and i'm just seeing a swimming pool isn't the proper role but the point is that's why the vote that's why the vote so kind of what i'm hearing here um trying to bring it in like from what i'm hearing here is it's not a high priority but you'd rather have people vote on it so you'd rather have it be a geobond it needs to be something separate it needs to be a geobond so i'm putting it kind of down here with geobonds medium okay or look medium okay and we can adjust it we haven't talked about the difference between opportunities and center absolutely and that that's not going to stop us from doing what we're already doing which is like continuing to provide more and more opportunities for our residents so if there's a bond question about something like a rec center does that have to be on a municipal ballot or could it be on the this year's ballot because they did prop 13 for rap tax on a i don't know the logistics of that kimberly might or so but it does have it is it does go for a vote i don't know if it would i just need to know if it's going to coincide with a bunch of people campaigning for something versus this is a conversation of whether or not our community should do it well that that's also something that like if we're putting it on medium priority we can arrange it so ideally not that lisa can you restate that question though you were asking about whether or not a bond question for like a rec center has to go on a municipal election year ballot or if it could go on a non-municipal election year ballot because we're going to have like this year saratoga had their prop 13 which was it's not a municipal year so that's why i'm wondering does that have to be probably a question for marcus ultimately but i have i'm pretty sure that they can go on either one did you say you said you're pretty sure i think you're pretty sure they can go on either one yeah geobarb could be asked for every single year yeah okay so let me ask this but it can also be recalled one recreation center has somebody even said that as opposed to well where did where do we believe it should be i think we put it i don't think anybody's saying that's where that should exist i don't know is it high low is it medium well the question nobody has made that for me rec center or the question some sort of some sort of quality of life recreation opportunity does it does it have to be a rec center no but um that is one of the rules i like that better if we're talking about recreation uh opportunities that goes higher for me okay because i think the reality is is that that's what we're trying to solve what is it that they are looking for they're saying recreation center but when you listen to them they're saying they want to swim right yeah if we can accomplish that with the pond and the high school that has a swimming pool that can be utilized during the winter months i think we've hit that and then the other parts of it to michelle's point we're building a city hall with a library that takes care of classroom time where they can come and do jared's karate classes over in the portables i think we have solved some of those issues with the other decisions but with this being a facility plan just because we bump recreation down doesn't mean we're not going to pursue recreational opportunities for our residents sorry i was just going to say i mean with recreational opportunities in the world like recreation isn't just swimming it's basketball gyms it's we don't have any of these facilities and we rely heavily on the district and we pay them a free penny to run those things it's making sure that we have all those necessary facilities if you want to run the recreation program but it's just like the other city hall that has the climbing wall on it yeah that's a recreational opportunity that's incorporated also public art but yeah what we're talking about today is a facilities plan so we're trying to solve we're trying to solve this issue with some other things before we say yeah we want to spend 25 million dollars on this can we solve that in smaller chunks in these other ways and to your point basketball you're right so why don't we also talk about an indoor outdoor solution with the bubble it's a much cheaper opportunity to put right over the top of existing uh basketball yeah it's done in murray it's done in af so we can solve some of those things with cheaper solutions until that's a viable solution to melissa's point where we have better tax revenue that's coming in and we can say we can support doing something like this so to answer your question i think that i think what i'm hearing and if i'm if this is wrong just saying over right now what i'm hearing is that the building a recreational center building yes is not high on anybody's list of priorities okay that's what i'm hearing is that everyone agrees with that okay because record i feel like us as a city we've been always doing a really good job of like we don't have a rec center we don't have like a giant library but the library does so much we can still do a lot for our residents but when do we want the building to be built is medium priority low priority it's low okay can we ask that question a different way to just to double check here like uh who is either maybe this is not even the best way to take a boat no yeah no i mean yeah uh do my where my thoughts are going is do are we inclined to put it on a ballot or not i think if we're inclined to put it on the ballot we better sure as hell be ready to build it and unless we're ready as a body to be able to do that then it should be listed as a little i think it would be i think put it on the ballot with before we talk about those things well also that's got to come way before that i think donna's donna's point with this with the survey we can't just do a do you want a rec center yes it needs to be i agree the rec center this is estimated cost this is what it would look like for a citizen that your taxes will be in addition to the monthly payment and if that question then comes up and they're saying overwhelmingly we're getting this if we tell everybody in every way we can you need to vote on this and then it comes back and it's like yeah we're ready to do it now we have an answer about the bomb yeah that's the right i agree with the rec center situation has changed like i've used a lehigh rec center for years they've doubled my rates so that's huge i can afford that but not everybody can and it used to take me 20 minutes to get there sometimes it takes me 35 now same roads so because of the traffic that also impacts kids people with little kids there's no way they're getting their kids in the car to go to another rec center it's not worth it and so they don't have opportunities for swim lessons although they have those ones in saratoga but they're like a hundred dollars for you know why they're a hundred dollars because that's how much it costs to put them on and if we decide to do this we're saddling every taxpayer in our city with something that loses money so i just i'll stop talking about it there's there's getting an answer and there's asking a question that we're not comfortable morally doing so so the response to that though melissa is there's a lot of things that we do that are negatives the reality of it is is that every expenditure that we make here is usually a supporting negative right it just is they don't make money there's there are things that we're providing for them if we're talking about recreation we're talking about a different part of the need of a citizen they got to be able to flush their toilets they got to be able to have public safety but also if we're talking about community building you want to have things that draw people together to create great behavior ways for people to to work together as a community and recreate together as a community i don't know which one is the highest priority of all those things but quality of life i'm going to tell you is probably up there and it and at least to breadth point why don't we ask and if we do it in a survey first what do we lose by putting that out there with good information out there and if they come back and say we want to do it then our obligation as elected officials are to say that's what they want give them what they want they're willing to pay you could always have them rank also would you rather have a rec center a library of public safety building rank your order of importance to you things like that because then they're comparing it maybe they would rather have a library first and that would quell some of the demand but maybe not like there's just there's a lot of and they're like they want in yes do they have to have a pool do they have to have a 75 million dollar rec center or maybe just some indoor courts you know i don't know yeah and that's like the question is do we want never mind you go well i was just going to say just in case anybody doesn't know we do have a rec center design it's already it's already been designed so i think it's a bit small we also have businesses that are working on creating site right now it's bigger than me so the first design i did we have them make it a little bit it didn't have the electric pool in it though it was just like no well the main phase the first phase was just the leisure side of like well phases okay yeah yeah yeah pre-covid we started it and then coveted hit and covet kind of turned everything up and we just kind of shut it down i think councilmember burnham said something but i just want to i want to highlight and reiterate she said that she's still going to lehigh's rec center they doubled her rate and they're still running that facility the two million dollar a year um well that's why they doubled my rate because they got tired of that but they're still doing that they're not running it they're choosing it's running in the red yeah and even with the doubling of the rates i just think it's important for anybody who says yeah we want a rec center to understand you're going to pay a fee to access it and your taxes are going to go up and you're going to pay a fee every year to just have it in your community whether you use it or not is immaterial there are very few rec centers that actually make money almost none yeah pro is one who i think do we want to have a conversation really quick about public safety a police building i think we already have it so as long as that's happening it's over here so there is just fyi the current city hall retrofitting for public safety will be expensive and will require quite a bit of renovation however how much compared to a new one yeah how much compared to a new one though because if it's like 8 000 to 15 or 8 million to 15 million it would be so when we were i don't know the exact cost but when i was in provo we were looking at different police fire stations and all that and city halls um the one thing that you'll notice differently is they're hardened in a different way they they're built to a higher standard um i was frankly shocked that this was our police station because the glass is thin the it's not a hardened facility um you will find if you go out there'll be there's a higher building code standard for public safety and there's and they expect a lot more security around them than i think what we currently have it might actually be cheaper to build a new one than to retrofit because of the way they build it with brick and mortar and everything else wasn't that building designed and built as a public safety building yes i think but not to the if i were to speculate i'd say like the standards but but with uh with the idea that the city hall or the uh council chambers and the recorder's office area could function as a court and a holding cell back there is court the same standards as a public safety that's what we need to know not necessarily i know operating off of oh it's no big deal we can go there but if we really can't because it won't i would expect it depends on what you've got going in there if you've just got people coming in for minor misdemeanors that's another thing but if you look at the the actual district courts they're a lot higher standard yeah it was designed as a public safety board meaning the outside entrance the holding cell all concrete in the basement the basement specifically is 100 designed as a public safety board okay now that means we have to secure the front door that's different but i know that it was designed as a public safety building and we can sit in a situation where it can be retrofitted to work yeah and then the only the only question is like how have those standards changed since our building was built that's different and that's yeah and that's the yeah that's the retrofitting and that's something we could get more information on for sure 72 000 people it's sufficient for our needs at 170 i'm sure we'll look for a new building but that cost could be spread to brett's point earlier we need to seize the opportunities now but that cost can be spread over 170 000 people too in the future because those needs are higher so back to your question low priority is that what everyone's thinking if city hall is a high priority that's a low priority if it's not then that changes things but since we've determined city hall public safety is takes care of itself yeah yeah it buys some time for sure i think one of the things too some it feels like we're looking at each one of these as we need to spend the full amount for each one of these it doesn't feel like there's a whole lot of phasing discussion about some of these yes we know a public safety building is you know we want to have the top of the line but what are we doing today the reality is working for what we have today right they have a process in place how they're dealing with detainees exactly which we still can do that's what i'm saying we still have the ability to still do some of these things in the interim while we're trying to figure out some of these things that we know we have to address now that can stay where it is and even if they have to move into all of the other offices does that mean that we need to go retrofit all of the hallway walls so that they're bulletproof i don't know the answer to that but if not aren't they just offices shoot i walk through lehigh's building their cubicles they don't have walls at all you know i mean i don't think that it's a requirement might be a desire it's not a requirement that's what i'm saying they're not secure i'm just talking about like living within what our means are to me this is an important discussion of does it have to be like total retrofit for each of these things right now the only one that really needs to be built from the ground up is city hall the other thing we can do phases into maybe not the wastewater treatment plant itself but offices there are other there are other solutions i know that but i'm just saying like even the offices we can portable until we have the ability to go up yes we're already in portables yeah well i'm not i'm not trying to minimize this one i get that i'm just saying that there are other options that we can do just until we get expensive done then let's move to the next expensive uh need because if we're trying to do all these at the same time that's going to be a clean healthy bond or huge tax rates i do want to make it clear with the treatment plan expansion that this expansion is only to take our plant from a 2.4 to a 4.8 so we're not taking our plant from a 2.4 to a 10 million plant we have enough land to go to a 10 million plant but i wanted to be very clear that just this is a phase of three phases that's probably going to have to happen at our treatment facility just so it's clear and that loan would be based on um rates correct so that's not for about raising our taxes well there's an impact fee yeah that's what i had yeah okay but i just i just in sake of the facility like i just want to be very clear demanding here today that it's 2.4 to 4.8 and then we're going to have another phase that's going to have to step up after that so then there's also the i mean there's the element of like i guess also how fast you want to move um city hall yesterday okay yeah but like a city hall plus a library that saves you about 10 to 15 million dollars to combine them and so do you do a bigger bond do more now to save money in the long run or do you wait and do more bonds smaller bonds i don't do it right the first time okay so as an example uh saratoga springs city hall they're going obviously much bigger than they need to it was just under 50 million they're leasing out a whole floor to the county health department for eight years eight to ten years is what they said um and the library is is in there as well but anyway so that obviously increased the cost but they have growth with the revenue source attached to that i think that offsets the cost which i'm also willing to look into it and yeah we could have the sheriff's department would lease space growing even if we had our own police department because i think they still have needs in the county and fairfield and cedar ford and five mile i think if we don't overbuild our city hall it'll be underbuilt yeah yeah they'll say this in the long run and there's definitely ways that we can look into like yeah renting to the sheriff's office or even like small businesses people who need like one office i don't know there's lots of things we can do to help offset the cost for sure but okay so we're comfortable keeping that there when we're talking public safety are we thinking like i know it's not like set in stone if especially if it's lower priority but that is also a potential for a geo bond or an lba bond it's or it doesn't really matter at that point that has to happen first and then that becomes answered but what i look at is the cemetery building for me is like low-hanging fruit because that's inexpensive right let me ask this question the high priority medium priority and low priority are these time frames um because if we're looking at it in time frames it's a lot easier conversation to say in the next three years this has to happen this is like five years this needs to happen in the next 10 years this needs to happen because we are having some of those same conversations about in 10 years yeah maybe we're all on board with doing a public safety building in 10 years where we city hall's done we're generating income to take care of that and we are able to move on to the next thing and some of those bonds might even be layered that need to be that way so let's say this would like high priority is like we start the processes now we see results in five years this would be we start the process in five years we see results by 10 start in 10 see results in 15. does that make sense that's not a start because that's a result of that what do you mean these are the public safety specifically is a result of finishing that well yeah like like we're saying everything that needs to be shuffled around in the meantime we can always find a way to make that work right yeah the question is when do you want the permanent facility to come forward we want that one yesterday if if i may add i think this one the prioritization that we're doing right now is just based on needs like which one do we really need right now which is the high priority i know it can change when we talk we start talking about timeline because there's no way we're going to be able to do all the things at the same time it's going to be so super expensive but yeah but i think basing on the needs first are we comfortable seeing this based on needs and priority and then the next phase we'll talk about timeline like which one you guys want to start so that staff can start looking at funding opportunities strategy and how how do you do it agree well hanging fruit on the cemetery yeah i think you can get a prefab building put on a slab and you're done i i think with the cemetery i think there will be a timing um i think that we've probably got to get at least one more phase going our first day which makes it medium priority our first phase has been about 10 years now we're 2014 and we're 2024 when you say phase you mean moving to the next plot of land to start doing yeah how close are we being done with the first one um we've we've sold like in the 600s and there's about 1500 grave sites it's almost 50 so i'm i'm anticipating probably in about two to three years based on trends we'll probably need yeah that's the thing in a 10-year period you're only 50 but if you look at the trend it's like this so the last two years 30 of those were sold yeah it's like two-year cycles so like if you do 50 burials or 50 internments this year like it's likely that you'll probably do around 50 next year and then it's like then it jumps up the next year and that's like two-year cycle and then it jumps up and then it's like exponential but on like a two-year because i run the numbers on it i don't have it like absolutely so your recommendation is what then right i i think that maybe in three to five years as we look to start developing that phase then we should be considering that and then there's some other determinations that we have to make at that time as well like right now they're going to the recorder's office and the recorder's office is doing all this processing do we hire staff and all that's done out on the side at that building because a lot of cemeteries that's how that takes place like you go to the office at the cemetery and work with staff at the cemetery and you get all that taken care of are we at the point where you think it's a couple times a week or we're not probably not every day right it's not every day but maybe one or two times a week and then we'll probably get to two or three times a week we consistently it feels like we've had like one or two there's a last one right now so it's becoming more they come in on sperm but i'll say like oh like i live by the lehigh cemetery right so like on any given saturday it's like they run three internments on a saturday like that's the difference like we're lucky we run three a week they run three on a saturday like that's the difference of where we're at so that's good input i think that's important to know i was just assisting well the reality of it is is that three five or three years we're going to be done with the city hall then we're abandoning that and the public safety which is why yeah right so that makes sense that's why i say looking at it in years help is helpful to us so that we have a phase of how we're moving from one to the next because the priorities i think we've stated these are the priority next three three to five years some of them need to be three i think some of that i think that public works offices and satellite public works i think that we should be looking at some of that perhaps i'm going to tell you what five years that's probably going to be like crucial just like sarafoga springs has a cemetery that's in that i think that's an area we should be we should be having those conversations i certainly would be willing to to reach out and i mean we're sitting here talking about these facilities right but as these facilities are built i guess the point i'm trying to make too is like you're going to have to hire staff to facilitate these building good boys yep so that's the extra cost outside of even the bond so but that's part of why i think we ought to be working to secure the property because i think we could do that i think we could do it in excess as long as we're willing to sign off on the fact that we use it as a compatible property i think you guys can't believe i think there's opportunity for us to that point though brad if we're in the exact same situation we are today in tax revenue we're all in trouble so in three to five years and five seven years and seven to ten years that's going to go up substantially but we're all in trouble we will start exceeding our capacity to take care of our needs without really raising our property taxes and so i think we have to look at it as tax revenue is going to go up to support some of these things from commercial from we'll have more residential no question and the ability to maybe even take on some of these greater obligations with bonds yeah and i think with cemetery specific the way it's a special revenue fund you might have some monies that you're able to pledge up front to help build some of these facilities then you would collect that over time but once you get to a build out phase i think that that's when the money starts going away right then you have like then you're like in a subsidy for like maintenance and some of those things so it becomes a park at that point right the same types of maintenance essentially yes yeah so did we get to a good place i'm feeling okay with this okay i think this helps provide staff um some direction as well i'm not you'll be in the picture so i just want to ask the question about our high priority i think we've been very clear that city hall needs to get started we've also been very clear about the wastewater treatment plan so united acquisition we need to deal with the land acquisition and we need to have some financing options placed before us we have what nine million set aside now so we know how we're going to finance that money that and depreciate so actually we can use two different two different pots of money but uh i know that that's something that helps us like knowing what you have high priority we can dial in on some more exact funding options and we can get some analyses done for bonding shows that it's a priority and that money is depreciated yeah so and then yeah knowing that land acquisition is number one above all this well we'll definitely that's something you can have for us to talk about in december um i don't know if that's technically under us or we'll have a discussion at our next city council meeting and post session about land acquisition yeah i'm talking more about financing options for these not just land land because the reality of it is we need to know what's available to us so we're living in reality so i don't want to just look at this and go oh yeah we just have this unlimited amount of money and the reality of it is we don't and now we have to prioritize even more so and say yeah look in a perfect world we build all three of those no big deal but the reality of it is we only have the ability to do a general obligation bond up to this amount of money because we already have one that we're paying on right now and can we do a lease revenue bond or i can't see what that was so this one's revenue that's that's local building authorities still what's the capacity and and honestly this is going to be paid for out of some of our funds but also it's going to be taxes and what is the ability especially if we have to raise stormwater right i think that's the discussion we need having if it's in close session that's fine but i think we have to make that decision so when terrence comes to us with the stormwater we know that needs to happen we know that we need to build these things but we also need to know what does that actually look like so we're living in reality and that's something that might take a part of the next meeting we'll talk about the land acquisition pricing and stuff for the city hall we're ready to go property i think we're ready to talk about it um and then kimber was taking notes once we fill semi-solid even in rough figures about what type of costs we're looking at for construction then we can start to project debt service payments and so forth do we need to have city hall designed as part of that i don't think so i think what we have talked about is being able to pull and say okay this is what saratoga springs is running and this is their square footage size that they're looking at and some of those we have others do you feel like that's a reasonable thing that we could have some of those things talked about in december because you only have your december 3rd meeting right now for me i'm going to say no like i'd say yes to your first meeting in january if you want i think that we're in a position that we can i can talk to you about what money do we have set aside right now in our your capital project fund that can go forward i think we need the full picture yeah that's my vote i mean i think that we need to know what the full picture is what we have what we need to raise how we're going to raise it no we're going to talk about that no but i think as far as the how we're going to fund some of these things because that will also help us in the budget yep okay thank you so much this has been really helpful for us as we you're doing this what's up i did i'll give one more send that send that picture to all of us i will to facebook no don't put recreation center on facebook see now you see the criticism we take don't put that on there thanks for doing this i know it's not an easy conversation but i think it's just one we've got to have we'll just put all these in the down here we'll just get it okay do we want to at this time go back to economic development or to yeah uh Should we just start with that one there?

Let's do it. You can email them the presentation. They should already know because you talk to them and they know everything that's going on. Okay, so just want to remind you, the strategic goal for economic development really is very economically focused.

It says the amount is home to businesses of all sizes, expanding several industries, resulting in an expanded tax base, community access for all residents, essential goods and services, and growth of employment opportunities for workers at any stage of their careers. There's a few points of this that I tend to focus on. Out of this, businesses of all sizes, obviously there's an interest in having several industries, resulting in that expanded tax base, and that convenience is something that's talked about a lot, and then of course the growth of employment opportunities. There's a few things that I've heard talked about that doesn't necessarily get spelled out in this, and so I'm going to throw this out there and just see if, first of all, you would agree that this has kind of been also added to this.

One, one, and this is what Councilmember Wood talked about, reducing traffic congestion through local job creation, making sure that the jobs are helping to solve problems of other things we have. Maintaining a friendly and safe community through quality businesses. We're not seeking to attract all businesses necessarily, or make sure they're the right businesses. And then that the industrial attraction should consider other goals of the city, of the community, of the city.

So that we're not necessarily attracting high water users and industrial uses. We're not necessarily attracting industrial uses that don't fit with kind of what our vision is for our community. Does that all sound accurate or what you guys believe as well? Yeah, I think we want to prevent them from being like, I'd say for the industrial, I know we've said this a number of times, but how they impact our air quality, and also what they leave behind in the ground is an important part of that.

So I'll just give an example like the caustic use, like actual dry cleaners, where they have the chemicals and all that, that has an impact on the ground. So I just think things like that, where we're trying to maintain a clean air, clean land type mentality, that we kind of focus on those kinds of things. To piggyback on that too, it may be useful for us to find out what things are like heavily regulated. Yes, either health department or some of these other pieces, because we may not have to talk about them in code, because it's so prohibitive for them to even bother coming.

So that might be a good like intern project or something to help us know economic development and what's governed in the different commercial zones. So maybe you want to add the comment that you made earlier about the proximity of energy production, and even lines. Perhaps that you have did that as well, so we understand what the, how that impacts residents, wildlife, land, all that type of thing. So that we, if the impact's low, it's very easy to say yes, right?

So I think some of those things are helpful to that conversation as well. Cool. Yeah. Okay.

So just want to give a brief update, a quick look on a couple of things. Some of this you already know. So data center projects, you know, are not progressing. There's a couple of them that are not progressing right now.

And just to kind of give you the, a little more detail on them. So Google, they never have submitted plans to the city. They were looking at redesigning based on trying to do a more water efficient design. But those plans never actually materialized and never made it to us.

They couldn't make any progress with Rocky Mountain Power. But each company, each data center kind of came to Rocky Mountain Power with a different level of effort. I would say Google is probably the lowest amount of effort was given. Whereas QTS probably a little higher than the track to put in the greatest amount of effort for getting power out of them.

But right now Google's stance is they're just going to sit on the property until they can find some sort of solution. Whether it's see Rocky Mountain Power or otherwise. They haven't said that they're leaving. They haven't said anything's going to happen to the property.

They're just, as they like to put it, palms. I thought that they were working with the solar farm, the Enyo, to be their, like, main power to help power that. Is that not happening anymore? What I've heard is Enyo is working with just about everyone.

But Enyo said that they worked to bring Google here. That's why. Yeah. I think there's a lot of interest from all the data centers that could possibly get that power.

High priority. I don't know how quickly that will happen or if that will actually happen. So I've read a number of articles. I'm sorry.

A number of articles where some of these data centers that are here have worked out agreements with some of the small modular nuclear. Is that specific to a data center in a specific location? Or is the corporation as a whole going in that direction of securing their own energy and that would be something that would impact the data centers that are here? Do you know?

All I can say is probably just my opinion. At this point, my opinion is that I think right now it's specific to a project, but that has the potential to grow into more. So one of the examples with Google for them, they're working with a company called Kairos Energy for one of theirs. I actually have talked to and had a call with Kairos Energy before I knew that that had happened.

So my hope is that I can continue that relationship and follow up with them and see if they can extend what they're doing with some of the different site and do the same thing here. If that's an opportunity because I know Kairos was interested in Utah. They're a California based company, haven't really done any business in Utah. So it's, you know, we'd be trying to just attract them here just as much as we would with anyone else.

Thanks. That's going to be a really naive question, Evan, because I don't know and I'm looking for just a little better understanding. You've got an RQTS power is no longer certain for them. Was it certain at some point in time?

And what's changed that kind of facilitated that change of plan for them? That's the thing I don't know for sure because RQTS power hasn't really disclosed a lot of details for us about how those ratios work between them. The only reason I believe that they were fairly certain is they came in and, you know, were already going through the construction process. They wouldn't even have started the construction process if they hadn't believed they had power.

And furthermore, I had met with MEDA at one point with some of their engineers. I was concerned after hearing about others not getting power. I contacted MEDA saying, well, what is your situation? We want to make sure that they're not also going to be accounted.

Interestingly, some of the people that work on MEDA's team actually were working through Occupy Mountain Power previously and were the people who were allocating power to some of these projects. And so they had kind of an inside look into what was going on. And MEDA believed was that QTS had the power because QTS got the power that MEDA wanted to begin with. So MEDA had come in seeking a, you know, a deep water power, whatever it was, but only actually locked in half of that, thinking that the rest of it would still be available later for future phasing.

But then QTS came in and quickly grabbed that up. Why that suddenly went on? I don't know. So is there somebody upstream that is diverting that power from coming to our power?

I don't know what. I'm just curious. I didn't know if you knew. I just wanted to ask.

That's what's very confusing and odd about this is that they should have had the power. I don't know why. Yeah. Is this -- so I'm just thinking in my head as we're going through some of this, because it's a public utility and there are some requirements to provide power.

What are we hearing from at least the regulators in the state that are -- have we heard anything? Hey, they're out of power or, you know, they're not required to provide this power in certain industries or whatever. Because it feels like if it's there and now it's not there, the negative impact of that cause is why are all the rent sirens not going off at the state? And why are they not going off the regulators?

And do we even know if they are or aren't? I think that they are because there's some legislation that's being worked on right now to address the fact that right now Rocky Mountain Power and anybody who does anything has to get into that grid and do that. And I think they're looking at what their potential options are because they know they have to address it. Yeah.

And this has been the difference between the different companies too. Like TRAC, like I said, they put the phrase on an effort where they went straight to the top. They got Governor Cox involved. They got the Service Commission involved.

And, you know, they were borderline threatening lawsuits and all sorts of stuff with them because from their perspective, TRAC's perspective, there shouldn't have been anything preventing them from getting into power. They're not going to have power to be resistant. Do they have what they need to get started? They have some.

They don't have everything for the project. They have enough to get started. But that still obviously raises the question of are they going to probably fall in the same boat if QTS is in? And that's right.

Well, even more so, why? Right. Why is this an issue? And is it an inability for capacity?

Or are they making a business decision? You know, whatever. I just, when we have our representatives here, I hope that they're coming prepared to have some of these discussions if they're not somebody out of one. And just say, hey, you better come prepared to answer some of these very serious questions that have a huge impact on Eagle Mountain, but also everywhere else.

The county and the state. Not all of them can make it. But I'm confident that if we need to schedule a separate meeting just to meet with them at a different time. Well, we need to do a separate meeting and invite the governor to come have a chat with us as well.

I think that that absolutely needs to happen. Yeah. I've got his money. I think it's a good idea, Richard.

Do we know who is coming? I know Jeff told the team that he couldn't. Jeff won't be here. I think Stephanie won't be here.

Heidi will be here. I'm not sure who else. And that's it. Just those two.

Have we just given up on inviting the other one? I talked to him. He could make it. I have any questions, comments, comments, comments.

Sure, yes. So retail, I get questions about this fairly often. Walmart, obviously, and they're just running out of the room. I think it's a good idea.

So retail, I get questions about this fairly often. Walmart, obviously under construction right now, but the last I've heard from the Walmart team was they're planning on a summer or fall opening in 2025. So that's kind of a rough estimate, assuming nothing goes wrong with that. For Forters Crossing, that row of businesses, the row of paths along Point Express, they have a little eyes for each of those paths.

So those are going to start coming through the processes, assuming that Cos is not in his team and don't get you to drag things off. I was just going to ask, has Cos moved forward with anything? Hotel or anything? He came asking me, well, not him specifically, Brett.

Dan and his team, about hotels. They didn't have our hotel feasibility studies, so I got that to them to share with their circles and whatnot. But no, this is the way they've been focusing on just those front paths. Well, what about the supposed restaurant stuff, but ranch isn't going to be?

So that's Al Rafferty. Yeah. And that's Sprint Crossing. Moving forward, right?

Yeah. I mean, Brettie's going to be in construction, and then they have some of the... They have prospects for some of the smaller spaces, but not for the hotel yet. The hotel site is a little small, so it kind of limits the number of products.

Anybody wants a hotel? On that site. Yeah. Even on the marketplace, this is around Macy's.

They have the two phases moving forward. Teller lies on just about all of those spaces that they have on that. So that's on the east side of Cochrane Express. And they also buy the North America Credit Union.

A stretch of those businesses to Dutch Grows. They're just going to go there. Thank you. Um, Riley Commercial, that's the 28th piece.

Um, half of it's sold off to Ross Fidey Hall. And then Utah County, um, that's part of the customer as well. Um, but they're having a hard time selling those pads along, even on the boulevard right now. So, myself and, um, our, our folks at Retail Cook really try and help them get more leads on those.

They're just not getting a whole lot of traction on those. Is that, like, by the Mountain America? Or in the vacant one? That's by the Townsville on the corner.

It's across from Patterson, isn't it? It's across. It's Rush Creek Industrial. It's across from that.

Oh, that part is from the North America. I can't, that just blows my mind with the amount of cars that drive past that. But they don't see the number of traffic that goes past that as a win. Especially right there by the Facebook, too.

You're not going to get many more cars. Yeah, it's, I think it has a lot to do. I think it has a lot to do with, there's multiple metrics that go into the models that these companies do. If they all have their own proprietary systems or, or services that they use or whatever.

And I think that particular aspect is working in their favor. But there might be two or three that are not. And it may be an unfair representation because it's not forecasting other things that could, you know. They're looking for something that may require rooftops around it.

Rooftops, or even sometimes it's like a population within five miles. And just because it's on the furthest west side, it's not capturing, especially what we know as a potential or Firefly, all those other developments. So, you know, we're trying to do what we can to get better information in front of potential, you know, representatives. And this might be already kind of known, but the smaller retail we've already seen with food and services.

Those are, those are growing okay right now. That's what we're getting a lot of the otherwise going to be in for. Those mid-box and regional stores, as I've talked with lots of the different real estate professionals with each of those companies. I've, you know, talked with the Planet Fitnesses, with the movie theaters, with the Lowe's.

I've met with all of them. And a lot of them are just struggling to make the numbers work because of structural costs still. The good news is, is that the Dow coming out is that that is coming down. The rates hopefully will follow that.

And so hopefully we'll start to see a little bit more willingness to entertain that. And some of them have kind of come along and said, you know, we'll at least give it a look now. Whereas before they were saying, we're just going to want to try right now. We're going to focus on other things.

There has been just kind of a tendency to look for the past couple of years at second generation places and going into the old grocery stores, going into the old spaces, and leasing for a while before they build anything. So we've been at it disadvantage for the past couple of years because of that, because all of ours is new construction. So open to crest that hill and move past that. Have we had much interest from distribution and manufacturing?

Well, that's a question. I shouldn't ask about the mountainous supply. What happened? It's probably up to the area.

Are they? Okay. I'm talking even bigger. Like where they have large facilities that whether they're just constructing, use something like a Peloton as an example, where even though it's at the end of the line in Cache Valley, they don't care about that, or what's the other industry that's up there?

The airbags that they do up there. Do we have anybody who's showing any of that kind of interest? Have we been approached? Are we approaching a big swath of land or a big part of that and relatively close to SR 73 on Google Mountain Boulevard where we designated that?

Yeah. So I'll break the answer into two parts. Yeah. There's a later in this I want to talk about strategy on that because we really, we haven't gotten a lot directly out of that.

There's been some limited things that have come through the UGC Utah, some ROI's that came through, and we've responded to a few of those with distribution and manufacturing. A lot of the ones that have come to UGC Utah recently are either very small or we haven't gotten any sort of work back on any of them. I'm not even sure if they actually landed in Utah at all. What about some business parts like BDO that's up in Ogden where they basically do the footprint of all the built-up buildings and then people come in and do that?

Because there are some of those things obviously where you're going to have businesses come in that are doing distribution or manufacturing or whatever. But also to Brad's point, when they do buildings like that, it also enables us to come in and put basketball courts and soccer games and things like that that are indoor. Any interest at all because of the amount of money from anybody to come do business parts like that? Right now the best prospect for that is the rush green industrial part.

So they have plans that they want to do, but they need prospects or tenants before they actually go through that construction. But that's part of what I'm hoping to get UR sign off on is for who we're going to try and target with that and make that some best kind of a business part. I was just going to say I also think that the Inland Port and what they do are probably even bigger lever than EDC Utah. EDC Utah used to be like a really big player for site selection and bringing entities in to take them on a tour to see stuff.

And they got sucked back into the Salt Lake Chamber basically as a committee and they're not as big of a deal as they were at one time. So to me, the writing on the wall that I'm seeing is that the Inland Port is the one that has the ability to go out and find these big businesses like you're talking about and show them. And then we've got the RTI on our side because that's helpful for businesses making decisions. But I still think that might be the way that we get some of those.

I'm curious what if the Briley commercial pieces on there just because you're showing it or are they are you hearing the wrong ones from their group because they're not selling anything. I won't put that on there because it's what I would consider one of the larger tracks of commercial land that's actively selling right now. They're not complaining. No, other than obviously they want to sell off as quickly as they can.

That was my question. They're looking just to sell this to somebody else and not looking at development. They're looking to sell off quickly. Go ahead.

I just want to ask a question. I should know this and don't. What opportunities outside of the city are you exposing us to? I mean, I'm sure what you're doing.

I hear that you're traveling. You're going to this place to do it. I mean, can you talk to that just a little bit? Help me understand.

Priorities. What marketing we're doing on behalf of the city with regard to economic development. I know that you're dealing with people who come here, who reach out, who come to the Governor's Office of Economic Development. Are we actively pursuing outside of just a relationship with the retail coach opportunities?

Could you speak to that? Yeah. I mean, to try and keep it somewhat concise, I guess, because it depends on the company and the type of use they're going after. I think commercial and industrial are in a very different world as far as how you use that selection and improvement on those.

For example, with commercial, there are gatherings of brokers and retailers and whatnot. I found those have kind of increasingly become less productive over time. I mean, I'm going to kind of get into this a little bit, too, about how a lot of things that have been traditionally done, it looks like, they don't work anymore. Things are just real estate or commercial very different than it was even 10 years ago.

And so much more of it is personal based. It's more developing relationships with individual brokers who have relationships with other real estate professionals, whatnot, or going directly to the companies themselves, allowing them to look at their sites and things like that. For things like industrial, I relied less on EDC Utah and GOEO just because both of them have really not given Eagle Mountain the attention that it really deserves. And both of them are not really representing us accurately despite giving them plenty of information.

They've completely disregarded using our accurate information about our own community. And so as much as I want to try and build that relationship and make it better so that when things come their way, Eagle Mountain is obviously a name that they then share and whatnot when that comes up. I don't know that we can rely on them too much. We've got to do a lot more on our own to get our name out there in a marketing sense.

So you're saying the governor's office is not really paying attention to the accurate information about our population and all that? Right. And it was Utah as well. They take from a lot of these same sources and others group do just to kind of use about the sources and don't necessarily have a mechanism to pull in information frequently to get more updated data on population, demographics workforce, all that kind of stuff, or even about our sites.

And so that has just kind of caused, especially since they also have longstanding relationships with cities that they've done business with for a long time, right? The Octons, the Lehigh's, all these others that, to them it's an easy button. They have sites still available. You know, why take an aerospace company that's looking to manufacture some parts, put them into the mountain?

But I already know that there's a site locked and it has life businesses around it. So we don't even get a chance at that. It doesn't matter how much we plead for them to say, just let us be part of that. They just go straight off.

So there's parts of that where we need to do our own, you know, marking and work to try to get ourselves out there. And so that's the reason I ask the question is because if we're finding the traditional routes or avenues of exposure are not producing the results that we'd like them to, what's our strategic plan with regard to economic development? Because I'm not sure that I know what it is. And I'm sure that you know about that a lot more than I do, but how can we help facilitate better outcomes?

I think that's really what I'm asking. That's what I wanted to talk about today. Okay, perfect. Awesome.

I'm glad you asked. Yeah. That's really what I'm, it's like, okay, if we're finding that these things are dead ends, what are some paths forward that we could help facilitate some better outcomes? How do we approach it differently?

Okay. Yeah. So that's why I made this statement that economic development is not what it once was. Look at that.

It's like I wrote the same way. However. It's like Brent set me up for this next one. Yeah.

The, however, is that we can have the best of the past to be an example of the future. I don't want to say that because I don't, I don't feel like, I don't want to look at economic development in Eagle Mountain as we have to stretch beyond what we're comfortable with. We don't have to necessarily become a different city to be successful. We can still keep the vision.

We can still keep the strategic, everything can still work. It's just, we have to change our approach to a modern way of doing things to still get the same kind of results. So out of this, I have three approaches for success to this that I wanted to propose to you. So I'm going to lay these out for you with the caveat knowing that I'm going to also lay out the explanations for all of us following that.

So before we get into too many questions about these, I'll share the why's for all of these. I'll say it on your behalf. So the first one has to do with commercial and retail. And it'd be more of a focus on zoning and approvals.

So this is the first part of this comes up from something that was already discussed in that joint meeting, was having an actual downtown zone that restricts certain commercial development for that. That area. And the purpose of that is more on the small business side, what I'm worried about. This is something I learned recently some more about.

I went over a tour of Pace and went there. I come up to an individual. And they have a nice downtown to revitalize it and whatnot. But they do have a case where they have lots of business spaces are taken up by insurance agencies and all sorts of other stuff.

It doesn't necessarily want you to go visit downtown. So there's some things about that that I think we should definitely approach see around later, especially as that master plan is getting done. They also have zero parking. Yes.

Yeah. Although part of the problem I noticed was that nobody really goes to their downtown either. So like when I was there, there really, there was parking on the street, but nobody parked there. Which city was that?

It's Pace. Yeah. Well, it's Pace. And it's one way, weird streets everywhere.

Yeah. That's interesting. We don't want that. We don't want to mimic Pace.

Yeah. The second is creating your retail equivalent of an RTI overlay zone, not to cover all of our commercial, but certain targeted areas that need it. So describe what you mean by it. What is the, what you're looking to target?

What do you want? So this has to do with trying to attract the right kind of commercial to the right kind of places. So as you work through that, which is what? Yeah.

As you're looking through like the future language map and you're saying, we want to have big box commercial, or we want to have office space or something like that at these certain places, trying to set up the practice of approvals for that to make it, you know, an enticing factor to actually go into that location. So one of the things we've learned, one of the things I've learned is that beyond just the costs of coming in, retail hates how long it takes sometimes to get things approved, right? They don't like to have to go through all the net making, especially if it's a bigger development. If you have a, you know, a big box store and you got pads along it and things like that, where now every time you have a new tenant or a new buyer coming into each of those having to go back and get additional approval, and get more and more scrutiny about it every single time.

If there's a way, if we have to create a similar process as the RTI, where some of it can be staffed with approval within reason, of course, then hopefully trying to streamline some of those processes so that it's a little bit easier when we get through it. And then they'll say, yeah, I'd rather locate my business here where the city also agrees it's a good place. I know I'm not going to have to find the city about it because it's already a place that they like. Then I'm going to choose that even if it's a little bit more expensive than going to this other site that might be less expensive.

So you're looking for an overlay that can be applied to different commercial places rather than doing, putting that into an actual commercial zone so that we can be prescriptive about when this will benefit, where it's going to benefit. The idea that not every commercial area, there's going to be some commercial areas that probably deserve a little more scrutiny, right? That it might be a trickier situation and it should every time a business comes in, we may want to give that an extra look to make sure it's coming through. A perfect example is Ranches Crossing that's come out a few times trying to figure out how that works.

Maybe that doesn't fall under something that makes sense for an artillery type overlay because it is in such a critical juncture of a state, right? But in other places that might need it, we need some sort of an oomph to kind of get it going or we want to push retail out into a certain spot. Do we need to do multiple ones? I'm just kind of thinking through this because when you have different categories of businesses, like if we're talking about retail food, that'd be a different thing than retail goods.

Or if we're talking about distribution, are you thinking that there should be multiple, like, because you don't want to put it all into one, right? No, this would be specifically for retail because we already have the industrial RTI overlay. And my idea of this would be a retail approach. It would be more of a similar to how our RTI overlay works.

There's a certain number or certain types of instances that are called out, right? So we only really give this to certain categories of businesses that would come into there. So we're not necessarily saying that. What I was thinking is the other ones we haven't talked about, like medical, like beautiful trauma, trying to attract the hospital to kind of moving the things out of their way to make that happen, or an educational something.

Do we want to have something like that that really encourages that type of thing and move some of the roadblocks out of the way for them to say, "We're prepared for you to come here. Here's the steps that we've taken." Or do you think just to focus on the retail is kind of moving, and I'll defer to you or the council on the weather, I don't like this. What are the rest of you thinking? I personally think, I mean, I think his idea has some merit.

If you look at what Bill Gaskell built right there on the corner, we really need to see every one of those side plants for every one of those drive-thru restaurants in my opinion. And I just think that you can open that up a little bit. If you have that prescribed within that area and you say, "These types of uses are going to be approved." As long as they meet whatever the minimum standards are, right, and get the staff the opportunity to do that, I'm not going to take issue with that. But I think where those are located is where I want to have some real contemplated discussion about where are we going to be able to do that.

And, you know, how do you do it with some of the other uses? Rich, you're talking about medical and others. I mean, I think there are those zones, and that's not been a real issue. But in some of our commercial areas, we're getting a lot of dental offices and those types of things.

Do we want to -- I mean, to his point, do you want to kind of separate that from where you are? We're going to get down a little bit where you can remove the professional offices from that type of use and congregate them perhaps in a little different area and make sure that the retail is front and center in some of those areas. I think that's something we can talk about. Because I hate to see all the best space being taken up by insurance agents and dentists.

My son's a dentist, so. So, is there support then for moving to a liquor process or a -- I think this is something about -- if this is okay, I could just work on some proposals for you and bring them to you and let me kind of steal over them at that point. Yeah. Good idea.

Okay. So, the next part of this is -- I call this industrial name recognition. So, establishing specific industries to pursue so that we're not just shotgun approaching everything with industrial. But then, we're planning and marketing sites with our property owners with a shared vision.

And this extends also to everyone here in the room, council, mayor, everyone. We all understand these are the industries that we're pursuing. Every time you have conversations with anyone at the state, with the legislators, with any business people you have in mind or have relationships with, these are the industries that we're focusing on. This is why we believe we do good at them.

This is where the land is that we have for them. These are the ways that we can make these work. This is the infrastructure that's going to make them work. This is the workforce where all of it's in, right?

And then, marketing Eagle Mountain brand associated with these specific industries. So, working with Tyler in our own internal, you know, projects and whatnot, we're starting to associate the Eagle Mountain brand with these sorts of things as well. We start identifying with this industry, this industry, this industry, this is why, you know, going from there. So, and I'll explain, well, I'll provide some recommendations on what those industries could be.

But I'd like your feedback on that. So, the last one is what I call data mastery. So, investing in a couple of data collection tools or one data collection tool. And really where this comes from is kind of linked to this before.

There's, it depends on the company, but a lot of companies now, especially the bigger national ones, they have their own proprietary data systems or some will rely on other various data sources. And when you present your own data as a city to them, they sort of disregard it. Because they feel like what power does a city have to really tell us what they actually know about the market or the trade area, whatever it is. They look to third party sources more than they do direct sources unfortunately.

So, I've done a lot of work to provide a lot of good data that has been really helpful. I've gotten feedback over the past several months from a lot of people who have been very pleased to see the data and how it's been packaged and brought to all these different people. I think it's made a lot of impact, but it's not taking us quite over the edge with some of them. An example of this is I've had lots of conversations with Lowe's in particular.

And they say, PeopleMountain seems great, what they're showing us is great, but when we run things for our own models or when we consult this other source, we now have a bit of a disagreement between the different data sources. We need a third party to help us go over that hurdle. But beyond that, our own data sources are somewhat limited in that we only really say so much. We can say we have this population, but we can't say where is that population going?

Where is that population shopping? How are they shopping? Where are they working? All these sorts of different things.

But the fact that we do over a thousand building permits a year, that's going to be lumber. That means we're going to have a thousand washers, a thousand dryers, a thousand refrigerators, all part of that business model in the contractor section, which should be a huge win for somebody. I can't believe nobody is jumping on the fact that we're still building more than anybody else. And that's the thing that's really frustrating about it.

I'll tell them all about that sort of stuff, but they don't input that into their own models. They're still looking at them. They're very rigid and data driven. And this is how things have evolved over time.

It's extremely data driven now, right? And so what I'm trying to get to is to try and get not to just their level as far as delivering data, but try and get ahead of them now. Try and get where we're saying, I know you have your data, but my data is better. And I have more of it that tells a much better story than yours can.

And we want them to be in awe of what they're seeing. It's going to be basically a slam dunk every time they see our data. And there are tools out there that get us there. Obviously, it takes an investment to get access to that.

So something like Buxton. So a little bit of a side note, but somewhat tied into that last one. What kind of, you know, who are we targeting and what are we doing to target them and whatnot? I had a citizen Tuesday night after mayor's Wednesday, I guess, after that RDA discussion.

Why are we even doing a tax break? I was told by a previous council member. You may know who it was. It might have been Colby.

I mean, that it's one of a kind, right? We're going to do one RDA or one TIF per kind of industry, meaning one data center, one Tyson food. That's used to be how we did it. Well, I don't think we've ever done that because there's a history of the things.

That's used to the model that he wanted to do, right? Yeah. And so the citizens are saying, well, why are we doing another RDA for the same type of businesses? Well, I think the model is not one of a kind.

It's more of a deescalating. If you come again and you're not the first guy, then it's going to be a lot less. Yeah. Now that's the case in data centers because they don't fit in the same box as a normal RDA.

It's not commercial. Their values are so high. The taxes are, they have to, right? My question is, is how are you courting these guys?

And are we offering some kind of TIFs at what rate? I personally, not necessarily in favor of TIFs for commercial and retail type businesses, but are we just taking them golfing them to lunch or you're going to those meetings? Are we like, why would they come to Eagle Mountain? Any of these guys besides data centers, which we're obviously good at.

I tell you, I think he hits the nail on the head with number two where you have the industrial name recognition. Because from my perspective, I think it comes back down to what our Eagle Mountain brand is. And I think that it's natural to court and to bring a bicycle manufacturer here or an ATV manufacturing facility. Some services, some industries that will service that, perhaps equestrian facilities of some sort.

All of that, maybe it's a North Face gear production facility that makes outdoor gear. But I think those are the types of businesses that we're going to automatically be advertising for through our branding efforts. And I think there's a natural fit there where there can be a symbiotic relationship of the city maintaining our brand, according to those manufacturers to our city that support that brand, and working in a tandem to support their products and their growth, and also to help recognize what our brand is. Well, I think part of the comment, too, to help Evan to get to an RTI or to a REI or type, you know, some kind of that kind of business, even the outdoor recreation and whatnot, is although I'm against it, of course, the state now says on retail what we can do with tips anyway, but are we, can we help with infrastructure needs?

And can we, I think that's going to be the key to bringing these people in here. And in the meantime, I don't know that as a council, at least we haven't given direction, and I don't know that we're using that tool. It goes back to the, there was a conversation a little bit before. There's an objective under the strategic goals or an action about developing a business policy.

And so that policy would be trying to determine what is appropriate based on one of these businesses range, but that obviously the policy would come through the city council to kind of get your, I guess, blessing, as far as what does that look like so that we're all the same. Well, I think that's the conversation I'm talking about. What are we interested in? Maybe we should consider some reduced fees of some sort to court, something like that.

You know, where you're charging and impact fee. Maybe we should say, look, we really want your industry here. You align well with our vision. You're a participant in our brand.

And we'd like to have you be known as part of the Eagle Mountain. Well, I think that's what I'm interested in that. So I think we ought to have those discussions. And if those are some tools you're looking for, let's have that discussion.

What does that look like? But do you think the discount on fees is going to make a big difference? I think the RTI. That's not who it is.

Might make the difference. So I think the RTI did as well as it did for us because it was a clear landing path. Because that's worth more than thousands of dollars in discounts and fees to them because of the site selection. So that's just, I mean, it's a tool, but I don't know that it's going to be one that brings them in.

But maybe it needs to be an Eagle Mountain brand overlay. Maybe that's what it needs to be. And if you fit in our brand, then you're going to have a leg up on your competition and going through the approval process. Whatever that looks like.

So like with the preference for like outdoor type companies? Absolutely. I would want to do that. If we could get a Columbia, a North Face, if we could get a Calisocchi to come build them or even those that are selling them or Honda.

I think those things align really well with our brands. Or I'm not a mountain biker, but Steve, what's a nice mountain bike? A Cannondale. I don't know, a Cannondale.

There's a ton of great brands, yeah. Okay. But so even if we, even if we reached out to a manufacturer of high-end mountain bikes, wouldn't that just want us to have that in our city? Well, and honestly, some of it might just be the fact that they'll be paying less taxes because of the cost of land and all that here.

Yeah. And we'll talk more about this as we talk about kind of some marketing industries, but you know, that definitely could be something to pursue. I do like that. Yeah.

You can find brand overlay. That's pretty cool. Yeah. It's tried and true.

Yeah. If you come help and support our brand, we're going to make it easy for you because you're the type of, you're the type of big business or small business. That'll be one of us. You want.

To also answer kind of more of a customer grace and questions earlier, we do kind of take two different approaches. We're trying to do that more now where, you know, obviously, as we try and get our name out there, recognized for certain things about outdoor recreation, about whatever it is, you know, we do whatever we can to kind of create our name out there so it doesn't come to us. But we don't want to just wait for that, obviously. We want to do something that's more proactive.

And so we've already been doing some of that already. I do that a lot, all the time, and we recruited Terrence to help out with some of that, too. We go straight to the companies and start learning a little bit more about the industry and where their pain points are, and how Eagle Mountain can satisfy that. And so that's revealed some opportunities for Eagle Mountain that we can start getting into that game and start making some things work.

So there's both going on right now. So I'm going to ask maybe a question that, again, maybe it's an obvious answer. You know, we hire a lobbyist to go take care of things at the state. Are we at the point now where there would be some benefit to hire somebody who that is what they're doing to go out and just you tell them, here's what we're looking for.

Here's the thing. You go hit this particular industry that you're an expert in. You have all the connections. You go hit that.

So I can focus on these things. And we pay whatever that consulting fee is for, you know, maybe it's a year that they do that where they're just going and hitting. Maybe it's an employment type thing that maybe we don't have the ability to get into that for whatever the reasons are. You know, we've butted our heads against it.

They won't give us the time of day or whatever. But this person has the end. They can leverage some of those relationships or whatever. You feel like we're at that point where there's a benefit to doing something like that, that the return on the investment is, you know, we get a thousand jobs.

Well, I think we have done that to some extent with the, is it? We pay for a membership, right? Retail clubs, yeah. Just to be frank, I don't think we are at that point yet.

I think some things are going to change. So we're hiring right now for an information services manager. So ITU will come off with me. So I can start spending a lot more time, you know, developing more relationships and things like that.

So far in the companies that we've tried, you know, reaching out to and making inroads with, we've been pretty successful in that. We haven't really had any barriers as far as just, obviously it's really great to have subject matter experts and things like that. People are very familiar in the know and whatnot, but we haven't really had too much trouble finding who those people are and getting some inroads by working with those people. You know, maybe, maybe down the line it could be that way, but so far I haven't really run into any issues where we need to do that as far as actually hiring someone to do that.

Just my personal point of view. So I wanted to kind of go over some things about why some things have changed real quick and why get into some of the whys behind the new approaches. Already talked about this a lot. Site selection is very data driven now.

This is both commercial and industrial. So much more time is spent diving into the data than it is actually going to a location. Going to the location is almost the last thing that happens now. So there's just a whole lot of data that's being complicated.

If we tell the shopping habits, we know sources of entertainment, methods of social interaction, all these things have changed quite considerably, especially with COVID-19. Some things have changed back the same way before, and other things have changed even more a different way. You know, COVID-19, for example, caused people to try a lot more of the grocery delivery and try a lot more of the Uber Eats and all that kind of stuff like that, where that trend is now changing the opposite direction because people can't afford grocery delivery. They can't afford Uber Eats and all that kind of stuff, right?

So a lot of things keep changing. And it is making retail, from those I've talked with and the data I've seen, it's making them nervous to act because things are moving so fast, especially when you're talking about building a new brick and mortar business. They hesitate to create that new business, especially in a new market, because they're not really sure how things are going to change. in the next two years.

So hopefully as we continue to implement the strategies, we can kind of get them past that. Supply chains, risk resiliency, everything like that has also been affected from COVID. We're still seeing this right now. I think I mentioned this in the past with the hotels as an example right now.

Our hotel market feasibility study, we did return really good results to show that there's demand for a hotel right now, if not two. And as I met with representatives from Hilton and Marriott and all those others, they're all very excited about building a hotel. But they have to have the other piece of the equation, which is the actual developer of the property and who will be the future hotel owner. And those are the people who are skittish right now.

They're still kind of reeling from the supply chain, still reeling from how COVID impacted travel and things like that. And so they're very risk averse right now. And so we're trying to get them past that, feeling like this isn't real. And then this is something we all kind of know as well, the average American has changed quite a lot.

This is just one chart that you could look at a hundred charts of how the average American has changed. And so that, of course, also changes some differences. And I think sometimes it disconnects as far as, you know, obviously I get a lot of questions about where's our Texas Roadhouse, where's our this or that, right? And where's our day 10 business?

And there's your answer. Right. And sometimes some of these things change a lot, too, where I don't even know that retail is quite even caught up with how to handle this. You know, we already know that there's a ton of people who work remotely here in the mountain.

And I don't know that they fully captured that because that's that daytime population, which it might actually be here. They just don't know. So there's a lot of things that are still evolving that we're trying to get better handle on to help them. Is there a way for us to find out what, how many work from home?

Because, like, we know how many employees there are because of the business license being processed. But if it's somebody just working remotely, that's not a thing. I think, Brandon, we talked about doing something with the surveys coming up where that might be a question to ask. Is there something that works from home?

In your household or anything like that? Or we could start using that. I don't work. Yes.

What hasn't changed? So people, they don't want to leave their city if they don't have to. I think we can all agree to that. If you can work here or if you can shop here, that's always what we want to do.

The typical shopping center continues to dominate brick-and-mortar retail development. So congregating a bunch of retail businesses, that's kind of just the typical. When you go to, like, the ICSC Pub in Las Vegas and you see the developers there, you don't see any other product on display. As far as trying to attract retailers to them, it's always retail center, retail center, retail center.

And then who's there? A lot of these retail businesses like to go together in packs, right? So the Costco lands and others come around them. Even with Kroger and others, they come in.

They're all looking for these . So that's what's landing and so that's something to keep in mind. Industrial recruitment is still driven by access to workforce and transportation. As always, the two top things that come up is workforce first and then transportation second.

But ultimately, both of them don't want to overpay for either. So they're willing to flex a little bit depending on how easy it is to make that happen. And then people do want to socialize and be entertained outside of their homes. Despite the fact that it's so much easier now to watch TV and do all sorts of stuff, play video games and everything at home.

People still want to get out. They still want to go get a house to eat. They still want to go out to recreate and things like that. So where are we going from here?

This is kind of the beginning of kind of the overall strategy that I'm looking at and I want to try and get some sign-off for them. So the challenges that I'm finding is that cities are finding themselves unprepared to address the demands of the changing retail and industrial real estate. We'll talk about that a little bit. And then new industrial development often feels most comfortable going to known locations.

This is where we get into the competition with cities like Ogden and other places that they just already have that established name. Industrial park and things like that. So we're struggling against that like others might. But we do have opportunities.

With adequate coordination and preparation, we can stand out. We've already started to feel this a little bit. With what Terrence and I have been doing as an example, there's some opportunities that come out of that. A lot of existing sites also around Utah are expensive.

And those property owners are not interested in necessarily sacrificing for those recruitment opportunities. So a lot of businesses that may come to Utah, even though GOEO and EDC Utah and others may say, look at this great site, there's a lot of other businesses around there. Once they get to the property owner discussions and negotiate the land, they're not necessarily going to go backwards to give them a great deal. So we can jump on that opportunity and use that to our advantage.

Again, it's going to come down to overall strategy. What does that look like for us? What tools, what leverage we hold to actually stand out, right? So just a reminder, this is what we're looking at for those approaches.

And so I'm going to kind of do this a little bit of a different order than what's shown in one, two, three. So I'm focusing on now specifically the number two. And so I wanted to propose particular industries that we would focus on as we go forward. So the first one being the life sciences, and this is kind of a broad category, but it does cover a lot of good things that hopefully touches on a lot of things that sound familiar.

So this would be medical and medical device manufacturing, pharmaceutical production, a lot of research, a lot of things that affect hospitals and other things like that. But it also gets into ag as well. It gets into all sorts of different things. Basically anything that you go to your biology class for, that's going to have some sort of connection to life sciences, right?

And part of the reason why we want to pursue this is because it does align with the current demographics of our population. They're high paying jobs. Life sciences has a long life ahead of you, it's unintended, where the industry has a lot of life left, and it's going to continue to grow quite considerably. We can handle a lot of different kinds of businesses under life sciences category.

But we have found, as we have been talking with different companies around Utah, the life science companies, that there is a fairly strong dissatisfaction among all those companies about where they're at. They're overpaying for their spaces. Their spaces that are in are inadequate. They don't have room to grow.

There's a lot of different opportunities out of that. And some of the things that we were concerned about, like workforce access and things like that, turns out it's not much of a problem as we thought it would be. So people will come from all sorts of places to work. And we already have interested property owners helping us to structure areas towards life sciences recruitment.

And that's a good question. Evan, I was going to just say, I know actually quite a few people who make the trip from here. Yeah. Up to the U.

Yeah, exactly. Hey, sir. Maybe you're getting there. You're getting there.

Yeah. You're okay. The other part of this is kind of an obvious one, I think, with energy and cyber. So, but there's some less obvious parts of this.

Energy, I wanted to focus on because obviously we need the power generation for the data center to work. But even speaking for personal experience, I grew up in southeastern Washington where a nuclear power plant was really big for the community. But it wasn't necessarily big for the power generation. It didn't have any data centers, anything like that.

I don't even know they have data centers now. What was really important to that was that nuclear power plants and even other power generation facilities are highly advanced, you know, works of art basically, right? It takes really skilled people to work with those facilities. And so we already have really skilled people that work here that, you know, would fit right into that.

But what came about in my own local community with that was that we started getting businesses coming in that don't even have any connection to power generation just for the workforce. So in my local community, we had Lockheed Martin and Raytheon and all these other groups that are coming in, not because they had anything to do with the nuclear power plant, but because they had a highly skilled workforce that they could tap into. So it's one of those things where if we double down on making sure that the energy happens for the data centers, we also get that added benefit of that presence that then attracts all these other high tech businesses. But even on the cyber side of things, there's other things that make us unique.

You can just hire those data centers. One of those things is called SCIFs. Don't ask me what it stands for. All I know is what it is.

But these are things like that are in different aspects of like defense and cybersecurity and things like that. There's a growing need for secure facilities to communicate with them outside. Right, exactly. Yeah, we know exactly.

So there are those sorts of opportunities that you wouldn't necessarily know off the top of your head. There's demand for that. And those people that are trying to build those sorts of facilities are looking at communities that have data centers. Because they know the data centers go there because they feel highly secure.

So there's a lot of opportunities we can kind of pull tangents off of what we already have going on with that. It's interesting too because the workforce is drawn to it. Like Meta, I was talking to one of the like techs that are there that sits at one of the desks. And he said that they have a lot of Navy nukes is what he called them.

But they're the people who work on the nuclear part of carriers and subs and stuff. But he's like we have a ton of those people working here because they have this special skill set and they're drawn to come work for a place like that. And he lives in Tooele that drives every day because where the job is and the type of job. So one of the things also what I was going to say a minute ago about economic development specifically is more in this category.

Draper and Lehigh I think are beating us to death for lots of reasons in the development or in the recruitment of what I'm going to call the silicon slopes of like the Southern California. We've got the data centers, which are not huge employment center. What about the Adobe's and the tech industry outside of data centers? You know, not Google data center, but Google eBay, you know, the actual the e-commerce, maybe the way to say it, because I don't see us recruiting any of that.

And I think that's they don't need to be on the main core or this is the perfect place for a Amazon slash eBay. So this is where I think our brand, if you follow through on our brand, that's where we win. And they can get tips, right? Not retail, right?

So I mean, I would say we need to be focusing and recruiting in that. Well, and those, so those quality of life wins, your outdoor recreation, that will be a bigger draw. I mean, where would you want to live? Would you want to live in Lehigh off of I-15?

Or would you rather live in Eagle Mountain where you can recreate and do the same job? But that's where the workers are, what about recruiting that business like Adobe? Well, yeah. Well, that's what I'm saying.

So, so when a business, they look at going somewhere, they're going to look at, is this a good place for our people to live? And, and, and so that's, that's what I'm referring to. Anyway, I'll kick it back down. A little bit close to the campus.

So I think some of that goes in that technology campus really well, including the medical campus. But I think it's going to take, we're not going to, personally, I don't think we're going to see the Adobe come in and be, like, a trailblazer on that. They may come in later because we're always going to struggle on, like, the office sort of jobs compared to those that are on I-15. But we can start getting that eventually.

Unless we offer them savings. Well. To a certain extent. Like, well, what I think will probably attract a lot easier is, like, the Texas Instruments types of groups versus the Adobe and things like that.

It's not to say we could never get Adobe. I don't, I don't think that's the case. If that's the case. I think it's just, they will probably follow up some of these other reception groups.

Did you, have you guys read The Kiln? You guys know what The Kiln is? Yes. That's where my office is, by the way.

Like, we actually do space with Kiln. For those of you that don't know what that is, basically this company has, I'm assuming it's got to be leased because they only have one floor. The one that I'm in, they have the whole building and the other place, but everything that's on that floor is leased office space with a big common area. And I, honestly, when they brought me in, I was just like, this feels very much like parks and recreation where they go to the place and try to take over all of it, right?

It is a little bit, but I want to tell you, it is highly functioning there. And they, the way they collaborate with each other is in that tech world kind of mindset. Maybe those are some of the kinds of things that we should be looking at for the people who already live here that are looking for opportunities to not go too far, but do need to have some collaboration space. You know, that fits within our, our brand that we're talking about.

You know, we're probably not going to go eight, nine stories high, but we could go three. And they have these corners that they can rent out for whatever size of business. I mean, we have a barber that's in there. There's tech companies that are in there.

There's, uh, health food companies that are in there. I mean, really, whatever you can think of where they aren't going to have an everyday office space. It's a flex space for some of them and some of them, and this is their address of working. But some of those kind of things might help with, and if they don't do well, that's okay.

Because the next one will come in and take over that space. So it's something that we can keep rotating companies in there if they move on to a bigger space or it's not working or whatever. Maybe that's maybe some low risk type things that we can bring in here and offer that out to companies that are like Kiln. You know, there's probably a lot of others that are out there.

Yeah. Okay. Um, last one, aerospace and defense. Um, this one I want to kind of caveat a little bit.

Um, obviously there was conversation about outdoor recreation and also just for the manufacturing of that too. So, um, if you want to replace that, you know, or swap these out, that's totally fine. This is your contributions as well. But just to kind of explain a little bit behind this, um, where we have an advantage in Eagle Mountain obviously is our land and our infrastructure.

We have a lot of room to do a lot of, um, manufacturing, a lot of, um, high tech work and things like that. Um, I think we all know that with, uh, with some things that have happened internationally, a lot of things are changing in the world as far as what's becoming priority. And as far as aerospace and defense goes, um, and, uh, the traditional places that, uh, the federal government has gone to, to look for new technology or even just a ramp up manufacturing and things like that, um, have already started to prove inadequate. Um, so the idea here is, as we look at things like, uh, as the picture depicts, you know, one of the things that have come out of the war between Ukraine and Russia, the drones, um, has been a huge factor.

And that war, um, it's probably only a matter of time before the U S starts doing a lot more of that. We already know as, uh, the mayor has, has found out, there's a lot of interest with expanding all sorts of different aviation concepts throughout the, uh, the state and whatnot. There's a big drive for that. Um, a lot of what some of the cities around Utah are doing that do have a big focus on aerospace in particular.

So there's obviously Hill air force base is a big factor in the practice around there. Um, a lot of that is very traditional. Um, it's very much focused on, um, the typical fighter jets, the typical, and all these sorts of things. This is more of like a, how can we position ourselves to be ready to accept, um, you know, major manufacturing projects or major research institutions, all sorts of things.

Looking towards the future beyond that, um, and taking an added capacity that any cities, other communities can't. But, uh, how does that relieve them with any different than what we have? I mean, the reality is, I mean, there's security fences all the way around meta. It's not that those campuses don't already kind of already exist here.

And they're obviously the security is probably going to be greater for something like that. But manufacturing is manufacturing manufacturing, unless we're talking about them testing rockets and things like that. That's a very different conversation. But with these types of things, why not?

Why wouldn't we want to bring in aerospace and defense type contractors in for manufacturing? The, we have the land, we have a great workforce. We have a high, uh, military presence in Eagle Mountain and Saratoga Springs and Lehigh. Uh, makes it very easy for the military installation that already exists here for those to work and a data center that's in between.

Uh, those, I just, yeah, why not? I mean, I don't think that that takes away from what Brett's saying about the outdoor stuff. We can have both. I don't think that the two of them work against each other.

They're just manufacturing facilities. We have both. I think what we're getting out of this is this is what we're going to try and pursue as far as marketing our name out there. So do you feel like it's okay to go with these three?

Do you feel like outdoor recreation, you know, companies that kind of supplement the outdoor recreation vision? Does that need to be a greater priority than some of these other ones? Wouldn't those just fall under advanced manufacturing though? Because three of these are of the six targeted industries.

And I'm just wondering, like, could we just tweak one of the titles of that to make it to fall within that so it encompasses outdoor stuff as well? Yeah, I mean, we could do that especially with aerospace and defense. The tricky part with that is that just about every city you go to that has any piece of land will say we want advanced manufacturing. So we're going to get maybe potentially a little lost in the sea of every other city that wants to make their name for that.

So my feeling is we have to kind of specify a little bit more in some way if we can. So I think the thing though, you guys, Silicon Slopes is Silicon Slopes because Huntsman brought in the big hitters that are there now and took them on motorcycle rides up through the Provo Canyon and showed them the fall colors and helped them fall in love with this place and then had the numbers to back it up. In reality, for some of these, we won't get them unless we have someone like a Huntsman, you know what I mean, going out and If you want a horse ride up West Canyon. Well, that's exactly it.

And that's why tourism even is like a thing that we should be thinking about. But I just, there's going to be a difference. One of the reasons why Silicon Slopes is the way it is, is because they had such a huge advocate. And we're always going to be competing against the point development because the whole thing is an incentive.

I mean, it's funded by the state to start and they're dusty, they're going to get all over their computer equipment. Yeah. But I, I'm just saying like, My question to you guys is at one point in our economic development plan, we said, okay, we're going to go after a data center because this is what makes sense with our limitations, our positive attributes, all of those things. And we did it.

And my, I think what Evan's asking us is what's our next data center. And we are just trying to figure that out. So I'm hearing. I wouldn't say that we need to do the outdoor, like, because that's probably quite a bit smaller than what we're talking about.

Right. These are large facilities, right? Right. Outdoor is going to probably fall more under the retail umbrella of things.

These are manufacturing and, and some of them heavily regulated by the federal government as well. So, I mean, you have government contracts that you're looking at here for both energy, aerospace and defense, maybe even some of the life sciences. So yeah, maybe we can leverage some of our relationships with camp blooms to help us out with some of those things as well. I think that's, that's going to be a good one.

That's growing. So, and I think these, these three are great, but I also think that maybe like if you, I do think it's not a bad idea to encourage those others, like the, the bike companies, those kinds of things. For sure. But, but I think they'll more likely come if we have a few more jobs out here already.

Yeah. This is not to say we won't. Right. To anyone else or we won't try to get anyone else.

Obviously, we'll still respond to all their eyes. It makes sense to be easy to all sorts of stuff like that. But as far as, you know, as customer Clark mentioned, yeah, this is kind of an attempt at what is our next data center. How do we aggressively go after certain industries?

We want to actually have a target. Right. So. And we're finally positioned because like we had a life sciences company out here.

They were in our incubator and they did prosthetic prosthetics. Um, and they moved up. I can't remember if they moved to Lehigh, somewhere else in the state. Um, once their, their time at the incubator expires, which was frustrating, but it's because we didn't have any place for them to go.

Yeah. And we've got a lot more opportunity now. So I guess just to move on, are, are you okay with these three of being? Yes.

Um, just clarity life science includes education as well, right? Yeah. It has to be. Yeah.

Education is an interesting one. I think because, you know, one of the ways to, to look at these or what are the magnet companies, the ones that when they come in up, they bring others with them. And education is going to be one of those. So we, we might not see a big bump.

Let's say, let's say like in tech, for example, that's, that's one. That's probably. It's one to aspire to for sure. Yeah.

It's within reach. If they come, they're probably bringing other stuff or at least, uh, cause other companies to work more seriously at us. Well, even like bringing in the hospital. Yeah.

They're going to have the support. And they're going to have the support. And they're like, we have to have homes that our surgeons can live in. They don't want to live across the valley.

Hey, Scott's going to build them on top of Circle 5. I know. Yeah. They do require a lot of support.

Surgeon chill is what we'll call it. That's right. Surgeon chill. But it's not hospitals in theory.

I would probably change our train of thinking from hospitals to medical campus. Because it's a. That's a better way of saying it. I think that's.

Because we're looking for all of those. There's more outpatient. There's very few. Hospitals used to be.

We learned this many years ago. That they used to rate a hospital by number of beds. And it's like, heck, a big hospital has 30 beds. It's more about, you know, services.

And they're kicking them out of the hospital a lot faster. That's why the transitional cares exist. And they have a lot of clinics that just do one thing. Like, just do imaging.

Or just do colonoscopies. Or just do, you know. So. And those are cheaper.

So insurance companies are pushing you to those. So. Well, I think that's. So our focus needs to be medical campus.

Yeah. And just to be clear too. Some of the things that we've learned. Terrence and I have worked together on this.

Is that education and medical campuses will be important. But they don't have to come first. We don't have to wait for those. We will still be able to track websites before that.

Cool. No further questions. So kind of backtracking to the zoning and approvals thing. These are the couple of questions that are going to come up.

We already kind of talked about this a little bit. What should the downtown zone specify? How can we use retail and personal motivations? You might use costs.

I'm not asking for answers necessarily right now. These are things for you to think about. And that will bring some kind of ideas to you to kind of steward in the future. I think one of the things maybe just when you're talking about the downtown zone.

That's what the discussion is. Do we allow residential to exist in that? Or are we looking so that every space doesn't get taken by, you know, real estate agents or insurance agents or whatever. Perhaps it needs to be a vertical restriction.

Street level needs to be something that isn't those things that we bring consumers in. I'm a professional. I love who cares. I love who films guys.

Yeah. That was looking at like the small business side of things. That's one thing I observed. I was in Denver for the IUDC conference earlier this year.

Went to Pearl Street in Boulder, Colorado. And it's a very successful small business district and whatnot. I didn't care what was on the second floor. Most of them are two-story buildings.

There's some three-story buildings, but you had no clue what's in the second story because that was not what the attention was. It was all in the first story. It didn't seem to matter. So it's a mix of local and a mix of national.

And it scatters around. It's awesome. Yeah. Last thing really quick with data mastery.

So I talked about this in a little bit. I'm just trying to look into these tools. Having the data to demonstrate population presence and behaviors. Having that data to identify the retailers most likely to desire our sites.

So we can be a little more targeted about the retailers going through and knowing if we bring this retailer, what are the two or three others that would likely follow with them, things like that. And then kind of having that data to validate or contradict even plans of a retail area so that if someone comes to us and says, comes to you in particular, and says we'd like to develop this retail area, this is what we think could happen. We can have the data to say, no, that's actually probably not going to be successful. We need to rethink what we do.

And this is what we recommend. This is what's going to happen. So do you look at this as a one-time thing where we're going to look at what we're going to do? How do you think that's going to be successful?

Can I just finish my follow-up question to this? Return on investment is important to me. When we're talking about how we're spending on any type of computer software, subscriptions, etc., at what point do we say this is great or this isn't working and paying for relationships is going to be a more beneficial route to go to be able to bring this in? How are we going to measure that and how are we going to create an accountability for that?

Because after six months or seven months and nothing has come as a result of this, we need to be able to pivot and go, we're not going to go another six months or whatever with no outcomes from this. We need to move because we need to start bringing these in now. That's a good question. I think obviously doing something like this, there would have to be some sort of budget on the amendment to make that possible.

I think that's on me. Then that's like if I bring to you the best way that we can evaluate that. I don't have anything for you right now as far as the recommendation for that. But it's a big point that we do need to, we need to know if that tool is actually making a difference.

Sorry Melissa. No, you're fine. One thing that I was going to say is when Evan was talking earlier, he said something about how sometimes bigger entities don't just want to take a city's word for it, like with our stats. And Ken C.

Garner can't get our stats right. No one can get our stats right. But things like the Placer AI measure like who's spending money where within the geographic confines of your city and what they're doing, those things. I think that is a good third party data point that we could bring to the table to help sell what we have here and say, no, we have this giant workforce.

We've had, you know, some of those pieces. And I think ultimately, Evan, wouldn't that tell us how many D10 wallets we actually have? Yeah. The nice thing about it too is it's not just accurate information, but it's recent information.

So they update this like within minutes. So rather than us telling us, well, this is our 2024 data or this is through the last couple months, it's real time. We can look at it together with businesses and say, this is what's happening. And then supplement that with this is what it is now.

But let me tell you about all the other development plans that are happening. Let me tell you about the other industrial projects. All these sorts of things are going to affect how well your business succeeds. All this stuff that can't really be represented in the data.

Putting those things together makes it really convincing things. Cool. I'm in favor of us doing something like this. Yeah, me too.

Especially if we were taking it like a year at a time and to evaluate like you said. I just -- Yeah. That means you proved the concept for me. I'm just going to say I want to learn more about it because for me I want to know who are these people and how are they creating this data?

From your cell phone? Yeah. How do we validate what the data that they're creating that it's accurate? It's real.

Can I ask you a question? Sure. How would you like to know more about it? Would you like to -- Do a demo.

Yeah, maybe a demo. Because for me, frankly, it's what are we going to pay for it? What is the whole result? And I want to know who's behind it because it's really somebody's opinion.

That's how I see it. It's somebody's opinion of what's happening. And they're presenting it as factual data. I want to weigh that.

I want to know is it an opinion or is it really just based on the fact and how are you gathering the data to present to us? Are you just giving us an opinion? Right. Because -- Well, I'll tell you one thing with the AI, Brett.

Don is not wrong. It's absolutely collecting data on how people are buying things, how you're interacting with social media. It's pulling all those data points of human behavior in this specific area and they can tell you, even crazy things like, Brett, like what health things you are probably struggling with because of how you buy and recreate and whatever. I'm just saying I'm that old school guy.

You're going to have to show me the value of it. Well, and that's where I think they demo would help, right? Because I've had a demo on Placer AI and that's why I'm like -- Because it's a big tool that a lot of cities are using right now. It's going to be hundreds of thousands of dollars we're talking about.

Or at least tens of thousands. It's a 20 to 30 dollars. Yeah. So tens of thousands.

And what are we going to get from it? And I don't know any of this. Something else to consider about this though. It depends on the tools, right?

But something like Placer AI has a broader use case than just economic development. It actually has use cases for parks and recreation. It has use cases . So how are they gathering the data?

And I think this is probably a discussion we should have offline so you can bring it to speed up. Yeah. It's even something that will actually help with even our engineering and our transportation planning. Nice.

So we can show the demo. We can do something like that. So when we meet with Kenzie Gardner, this is one of the things I hope that we'll be talking about. Yeah.

Is this very live data? Is this one of those things where they use like cell phone data to show ingress and it's like old practically don't use? Yeah. It's a big one on the transmission.

Yeah. It's a big one on the transmission. Yeah. It's a big one on the transmission.

Yeah. It's a big one on the transmission. Yeah. I know, Steve.

You've seen that from all of the technical conferences. Yeah. So the very brief version. I was just going to say, on Placer AI, I don't know the basics, but, you know, the use cell phone data, but they can tell you, like, you can, you could circle an area or say, Corey Wright Park, I want to know where people are coming from and where they go after they come.

And if they stop in the city, if they come from outside the city, are they stopping at the store or the gas station or somewhere else we're eating? And it will tell you that. It doesn't, it's, I don't know that it gathers a hundred percent of the data. So it uses that to estimate, it uses a bunch of it to estimate based on the data they have.

But it's, so you could use it for special events. You can use it for transportation. Like you said, traffic counts, basically. We can use it for tourism and our trail systems.

What trails? Yep. You can find out if you're coming from Draper when it's cold over there and you're actually coming out straight. I went to a conference out of state and somebody from Davis County was there, not from a private company, but she demonstrated like, she was actually the competitor of the company.

But yeah, this is amazing. They were showing that ingress and egress out of like Salt Lake and Davis County. It's a pretty powerful, there's some powerful information you can get ahold of that. I just wanted to bring it back real quick to the, the, the strategic goal that the intent here, right, is that, and hopefully you felt like with everything kind of covered that we are getting on all these things that we'd be looking at being home to businesses of all sizes.

There's strategies in there that involve trying to get better small businesses in here in a place that they can succeed. We're getting all the way up to the biggest businesses that are bringing jobs, spanning those several industries. We're not necessarily, like Cosmo McClark talked about, with going after our next data center. It's not necessarily, we're just going after one industry.

We're now broadening it to three different industries that we're trying to assess ourselves with. It's diversifying, right? So expanding the tax base through that, but then also with some of the strategies we're trying to do, getting that convenient access to all residents with essential goods and services, using some of that, those tools, using, you know, whether it's Placer.ai or something like that, but even with some of the recruitment strategies to try and bring in some of these new businesses, obviously the residents want to start seeing more diverse commercial businesses. You're all the time, we're tired of the fast foods and casual foods and stuff like that.

Nobody gets excited about that anymore. We all want to start seeing some of these businesses that are either in Lehigh or Saratoga Springs, all these places that we're all going to and get them here. So some of these tools that we're talking about, the strategies are meant to try and get us, you know, leaping forward into that realm where we can actually start seeing success, despite the challenges of the cost of construction and the risks. So as we're going through the general plan of the state, do we need to be identifying areas in the city that we want to target for those very specific industries?

That's a question I wanted to ask. Are some of those conversations happening? So not yet. I think they do.

My recommendation would be, especially along Green Mountain Boulevard, where you have, right now, and the future land use map shows a lot of commercial in the business park area. If we can retain a lot of that, specifically for industrial use, I don't think we will ever fill out all of that commercial use, if commercial, unless we broaden that to mean light industrial or something like that. I think we're going to focus on and target these types of businesses. We better have a landing zone for them, especially as we're going through a general plan update.

Yeah, the challenge right now is that, obviously, that land is not for sale, as far as I know. We're stuck with what land we have available, which is predominantly in the south. The whole canyon is still advertising land out that way. But a lot of these businesses that we probably would like to be closer to I-15 or whatnot, we don't have a lot of options for them.

For some of these life sciences, we do have inroads already with Rush Creek development. We've been working a lot with Dan Ford and others to try and turn that into something that can attract life sciences in particular. But some of these other big footprint things, yeah, we're going to need to make sure that that land, you know, those big swaths of land hopefully further north are available and whatnot. So I think one of the ways that we do that, I mean, when we did the tech center below, all that land was owned by somebody else.

And I think we came in and identified it in a general plan and applied an RTI overlay zone to it. That made it pretty clear what was going to exist there. So if the landowner's like, I'm going to come throw some houses on there, like, are you? Because this is what's going to exist there.

And I think if that's what the plan is, then to your point with the overlay, we need to be intentional with that. That needs to exist so we're not fighting them at every corner to bring in rooftops to make this happen. Okay. Any other questions you have about that?

Nope, we rest. I'm okay with that. I think you've given us some good things to think about. I think there's-- Great presentation.

Yeah, that's good information. I think the only thing that's kind of bouncing around in my head is how are we going to measure our success with this? How do we circle back with some regularity so that if the strategies that we've just talked about are not yielding, that we can pivot? Because at the end of the day, I think everybody here knows we need to start bringing tax revenue in.

And if our strategies, you know, whatever that time period is that we determine, if it hasn't yielded in that timeframe, it's time to look at some other strategies because we need the tax base to come in. Otherwise, everything that we're doing is going to be based on property tax. And jobs. We need the jobs.

Well, I mean, that's the end result of it, right? We want the jobs to come in. If we're not seeing that, then we need to pivot. So I think that as we're doing this, there needs to be some check-ins of how things are going and what we do.

And I think probably for you guys, it always feels like, man, they're really getting on us and really riding us about it. But the reality of it is that we are trying to see how we're doing and are the things that we're trying to accomplish happening, or do we need to pivot to something else? And it's not really an indictment on anybody. We need to be flexible enough to be able to turn quicker.

We can't do everything in five, ten years anymore. We need to be leaner and meaner in some of the ways that we move with some of these things because we need some of those results soon. Yes, I totally agree. And I'm hoping that, you know, with your direction today and your kind of approval of this direction, the strategic direction for our economic development, that we all get on that same page.

We all push it heavy and hard, and we start seeing those results a lot faster because we start to get recognized for certain things. We start getting our names associated with certain industries. We start becoming known as a real attractive place to do business for retail, for commercial, for industrial, whatever it is, right? We just, you know, we obviously want to make a much more aggressive effort that is returning results faster.

And the thing I observed was that there really wasn't a whole lot of particular direction now that we have the data centers here. We've gotten some retail, but there needed to be a more conservative push towards something. And so this is the opportunity. I'm just going to add to that.

I think we're invested in your success with this. All of us are. We want you to be successful in this because the benefit to the city and to the residents here is insurmountable. That's the reality of it.

And so I'm going to ask that if you find that you get to a place where it requires additional help, where it requires professional services, that you don't shy away from coming and saying, I need help. In order for us to get over this, we found that there's some roadblocks because relationships matter in this particular thing. We need to move to this level of whatever. And if you could do that with us and we can respond, that helps you to continue on that upward trajectory.

So we don't just plateau and nothing happens. I hope that you'll have that kind of trust in this council. I feel like everybody has kind of spoken to that point of help us to help you. Yeah.

So be honest with us about, you know, how it's progressing. And if it's not going in that direction, let's come up with a plan that we'll work to do the next level or whatever. I think if the staff hasn't heard anything in this meeting today, I hope that you're hearing from us. We're here to support you.

We want your success. We're invested in your success. Your success is a success. But we're broke.

We're broke. Yeah. Come on, Dad. All right.

Well, it is past four o'clock. So, well, it didn't say how much. So that's 10th anniversary. So are there.

Yes. We want to make it to the next one. Don't blame them. There's one other item that definitely that I've talked about.

Steve knows the council, you know, before we get into that annexation thing, I think I'd have a conversation today about what that looks like. And what annexation looks like? Yep. No, it's the southern annexation next to several lakes.

162 acres. Saratoga Springs is meaningless. We're going to be talking about it tomorrow. Oh, that annexation.

Okay. So they're coming to talk with us about that. Yes. We've got overlapping annexation plans.

We need to have a plan in place before they come there, and we're all trying to figure it out in front of our neighbors. Who's that here involved, though? Who does that need to involve? Probably not everybody.

That's what I'm wondering. Yeah, there's some staff members that need that people. Yeah. If Brad needs to go, if it's his anniversary, I understand.

I'll give them back. I've got 16 years on that, though. Yeah, you do. I think that, yeah, I think maybe you don't have it.

But I mean, it's today. Yeah, I mean, who has the most information on that? Well, Brandy and I probably do. I mean, I do.

Steve and I, and we've been talking about it. But is it, everyone has to say to hear about it, or? That's what I'm saying. I think that if they don't need to be here, they could probably be released.

I would have to make them say it. I would ask Zach and maybe even Brad, or whoever, because street connectivity is going to be a big thing. Yeah. Zach's like, "Ding it!" So close.

I don't know if we can get through street connectivity tonight. Well, I mean, it's part of the zone, rezone, or not rezone, part of the annexation. If they, if they, next to Saratoga, I'm going to be pretty stingy on allowing the street. Of course.

Because maybe it's the allowance which doesn't involve. Of course. But, but, okay. We're not even going to have enough information to even work through that site.

I mean, that does seem like something we need to work through with service. It might be good for those who are making those connections, having those discussions, to hear the council say, "We're not making those connections." Yes. So that they're not having those conversations where their staff and our staff thinks it's happening. Yes.

I think that's my point. What is our leverage? Because look, it's up to, it's the landowner's right to annex where it wants. As much as we, I don't think it's our choice to say this, which is why I'm saying we need to talk about what's our strategy.

As I see it, we're either supporting, because they're asking for a letter of support from us. So we're either supporting it or we're not. Yeah. But it doesn't change the fact that it happens if they didn't even know our level of support is.

Yeah. We're not going to do X, Y, and Z. Yeah. And I think that's what we're wanting to work out.

So if we need a five minute break, so. Okay. Yeah. Okay.

Let's take a break. Okay. Let's take a break. Okay.

Let's see. Street connections. You guys can leave whatever you want. They're coming over here tonight.

They're going over here tonight. Who's on coming tomorrow, Clint? So all the elected people and some of the senior staff here. They're going over here tonight.

I think we should be a title on a list. I think if you do the super site, we're going to talk about the team. We probably deal with this stuff about upcoming websites. Yeah.

I think he's probably the most important person in that discussion. Yeah. Our bloggers. Yeah.

Steven. Why would we not invite our audience to that discussion? I think we talked to him about it, but I can't remember what he said. Stuart.

At 8:00 o'clock, we're talking about upcoming legislatives. Yeah. We didn't. Why?

Should we? We're just going to go back to the last minute. Yeah. Because, I mean, the discussion on upcoming legislative session, part of the reason we don't know what's going on.

I don't know what's going on. We don't know what's going on. Because it's recording. We have a nightlife closet.

We don't know what's going on. I don't know what's going on. We don't know what's going on.